A post for luthiers, repairmen, and tinkerers (SF bass)

[dlenaghan]

Hey all - got a bit of a question for you pertaining to a Starfire that's come up.

Now, I've never owned a semi-hollow bass, hence some of my earlier threads about caring for such an instrument (seems mgod is confident about their beastly fortitude, so I'll take his well-qualified word on that), and this one concerns body binding.

Is a binding in any way a structural element on something more suibstantial lkike a Starfire bass? The Starfire I'm looking at has got some excellent things in its favor - original Bisonics, hardware in good shape, no laminate separation, good overall shape..

But the binding has been stripped as well as the original finish, and while the finish has been replaced with an acceptable and rather attractive, albeit unprofessional, clear lacquer, the binding seems to be something like wood filler, or carpenter's putty.

Replacement - expensive? Necessary? Or unimportant in this case?

I'd love to know what others think, especially those with experience owning hollowbodies, or repairing or building them. I've Googled my brains out and from the messages I've gotten back from various shops, the few who still do binding replacement say it's expensive and troublesome, mostly for the labor, considering the binding material itself is rather inexpensive.

 

[bassmanpatsfan18]

Is this the SF on TB that you're talking about? If so, I noticed that about the binding too. Don't quote me on anything, but I'd think that the binding isn't exactly structurally integral. That said, it makes for a good argument to lower the price.

 

[dlenaghan]

It is, it is.. I've had several shops turn around estimates to me which are prohibitive, mostly given the (unconfirmed) assumption that the filler would require routing, which would necessitate refinishing the wood before re-binding the edge. But, very few of them even offer it anymore, and I haven't even looked locally (Seoul), where honestly things that are labor intensive are much cheaper than in the US, and often on par with quality. Well, sometimes.. :roll:

But this also builds on the (equally unconfirmed) assumption that the binding is of an unsuitable quality to accommodate expansion and shrinking of the wood. I'm no woodworker, but there do seem to be some high-quality fillers available, but how would we tell after application, possibly years or decades afterwards? On one hand, if it's held this long, it should be okay. But we can't really date the application, so I feel a bit less comfortable about it.

In any case, the seller (Luckie on TB as well as here) has been/is being a very stand-up dude about all the questions I've got, but the few questions that remain neither of us can really answer, hence my crowdsourcing it to the community.

Responses on TB mention structural support being more of a concern for very thin, laminated-top acoustic instruments and not so much for thicker semi-hollow electric instruments. I'm assuming the maple body of a Starfire is a solid slab of whatever thickness, but I don't know myself, and have contact Hans about the whole thing, since I'd like all the info I can get.

For other instruments, the binding was, previously, apparently a way to ensure greater ease of repair over the life of the instrument, the reasoning being that the much cheaper bound edges would get bumped and chipped over time and could then be repaired without touching the body of the instrument. I feel edified, though it's quite clear that binding is something mostly of the past, though you do see it on lower-end instruments like Eastwoods and whatnot.

But the availability of a shop that would repair it well, and for a decent price? They may exist, but they're hard to find. I've got some local digging to do as well..

But all of this may very well be moot if a) the Starfire's body is entirely stable unto itself and the binding is essentially decorative or a 'bumper', in which case the filler does not turn me off aesthetically, being essentially the same color tone as the maple body, or b) the filler is of a suitable quality to qualify as a long-term component of the bass serving a similar function as the original binding. Binding, after all, is basically plastic, or celluloid, though I am aware that higher-end wood laminates exist as well, though they are quite cheap as well, at least on StewMac's website.

Anyway, lots to mull over, though I fear if I mull too long someone else will snag it.

... Where's the :ninja: icon when you need it?

 

[krysh]

the tb starfire is much too expensive. be patient and wait for a better one.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yesterday I had my recently acquired 67 Burst in for some work. it has the fairly common slight binding separation at the curve of the horns. I asked the repair centre if I should have it repaired. It would have been moderately costly, but they said it was not structural and that leaving it as is would have no adverse effect.

Too bad you missed this, the most recent sale of a SF II on TB; started at 1950, ended up asking 1750: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f126/fs-1970-guild-starfire-ii-bi-sonic-pickups-825568/. Had it been a burst, it would have been mine.

 

[dlenaghan]

Yeah, that was absolutely stellar - perfect bass, excellent price. I am at least learning the virtues of biding my time..

 

[dlenaghan]

the tb starfire is much too expensive. be patient and wait for a better one.

I'm curious to know - though I'm unsure if I need to be a donating member or something like that to ask (it's a rule at TB, and I'd be glad to put some cash towards maintaining LTG as I don't think I'll be using the Classifieds here too soon) - what would you say a fair price would be for such a bass? Just hypothetically, say you were in the market and desirous of a SF, preferring a II, with a focus on it being a player and as such not too concerned with cosmetic condition? (But knowing the players' market is reflected in lower prices, usually..)

 

[chazmo]

We discuss prices all the time here, and no there are no donations necessary.

However, we discourage pricing discussions within threads in the for sale forum. Only the seller should be talking numbers in those threads.

 

[dlenaghan]

We discuss prices all the time here, and no there are no donations necessary.

However, we discourage pricing discussions within threads in the for sale forum. Only the seller should be talking numbers in those threads.

Absolutely agreed - I'd never publicly haggle a price, which is why I hesitate here. There is a private discussion, which I'll not divulge here, but I am curious to know what other members would themselves value such a bass at. I guess that's why I've been so circumspect - I'd like the perspectives of other members, but I won't publicly challenge a price: that's just bad form. It's a bit easier here though since it's not in these classifieds.

Anyway, I'll try not to cross that line, but I would like to hear from others - consider it a hypothetical bass, in the condition described, and price modifications you'd yourself consider.

 

[krysh]

there was a discussion on this bass and prices here already.
please use the search function, I can't do it for you atm.

 

[mgod]

I'm pretty sure all my Guilds that have binding have some separation, and I never even notice it.

Can you post any images of the non-binding issues of this thing?

 

[fronobulax]

Bass discussed here which is an acceptable place for price discussions. Feel free to bump it to get (more) opinions. First post has a link to pictures at TalkBass but nothing posted there really shows the binding.

I don't believe that the binding is a structural component. If the bass is structurally sound as it is, then replacing/redoing the binding would be a decision made on cosmetics.

 

[dlenaghan]

there was a discussion on this bass and prices here already.
please use the search function, I can't do it for you atm.

Yeah, ok, got it from Frono's post.

I had seen the older listing for the SF but didn't catch the prior discussion of it here and from the dates of the member joins on this forum, it seems that the owner had it up in TB a year or more before registering here, so thanks for pointing that out, and I do apologize for missing it.

Sometimes the search function only works when you know what to look for..

Good perspectives all, especially the discussion you've pointed me to.

With that info, it'll either be a much lower price or a pass, since at a lower price I'd be fine with it and the good that it has going for it, especially since Hans returned my inquiry and confirmed the pretty much decorative function of the binding in the case of Starfire basses.

Thanks, all.