A GAD by any other name?

[Ian]

Larrivee guitars have been and still are in Vancouver for a number of years. Jeans' son is in charge I believe, they manufacture the lower end of the line here, and do repairs too. The higher end ones are made in California, with Jean in charge.....he still hand picks logs to make the instruments, does all the sunburst spraying himself, and both locations make fantastic guitars... Steffan

On a more serious note: Any idea what motivated the (partial) move to Calif?.... Is it a financial reason? Or Jean just wanted to spend time in his Calif beach home?... 8)

Maybe it was a stalker ex lover in Vancouver ? :lol:

 

[Ridgemont]

Here goes the seriousness!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
the RO-127 shhhh....
Yes, it's a disease.

I remember playing a 000 of theirs that was really really great... Rosewood I think, but different model because it had the brand on the headstock. RK and GADs never stop impressing me.

 

[wontox]

Having played GAD's in stores many times, and owning a model of what is Recording King's nitro-finish solid-wood dread in the same price line as GAD's, I note a lot of similarities in tone and appearance and wonder if they are possibly made in the same Chinese factory. The workmanship on the RK is pretty much flawless, with beautifully matched sides, well-executed fancy inlays and binding, and an intricately cut headstock.

As much as we hate to see manfacturing jobs go overseas, the factory semi-skilled workers employed in three famous American guitar factories I am familiar with do not earn what many Americans consider living wages There is a tremendous amount of rather tedious sanding and polishing, routing work, etc. that a lot of American workers do not care to perform forty-plus hours a week for rather low hourly wages. The more skilled craftsmen in these factories still don't earn very much, generally less than most policemen or teachers. There are exceptions, of course.

If an American made guitar retails for $2500, then it's not unreasonable to figure that the materials probably cost the maker $200, and the retailers' mark-up about thirty percent (this is what a dealer told me what most retailers realistically hope to get on guitars of this price range) leaves about $1500 to the maker for labor, profit, overhead, shipping, sales, etc. If the cost of labor and overhead can be cut by three-quarters or more, prices lowered and sales don't suffer, well, artistic and patriotic leanings are very fine, but anyone owning/running a factory needs to make a profit and if the choice is eking out an uncertain living or having a steady robust business, most will take the steps necessary to achieve the latter. There's no real reason Chinese workmanship and production cannot or does not equal that of US workers. "Made in China" of course does not mean an instrument is inherently inferior. I do believe I understand and respect the sentiment many feel about American-made guitars, though.

Wontox

 

[bluesypicky]

I remember playing a 000 of theirs that was really really great... Rosewood I think, but different model because it had the brand on the headstock. RK and GADs never stop impressing me.

PM sent....

 

[Ian]

Come on Pascal, what you bought then ? :lol:

 

[taabru45]

:lol: My thought too......and I think Jean opened a Factory in California was to expand more worldwide..It made sense to him, and they still are a big bang for the buck, even the more expensive ones....all their models have ebony fingerboards too........Steffan

 

[bluesypicky]

Come on Pascal, what you bought then ? :lol:

Look at my 18:03 post..... fine lines. 8)

 

[Ian]

Whats an Ro 127 then ? and whys the F30 still in your sig ? these are all questions to be answered, together with hows the F50R quest coming on ?

Cheers, Ian

 

[bluesypicky]

Whats an Ro 127 then ? Cheers, Ian

A Recording King...

whys the F30 still in your sig ? Cheers, Ian

Sig updated, my apologies for the confusion. :lol:

As soon as the Martin dread is sold, the active hunt for the f50r will resume....

 

[adorshki]

By the way, doesn't Fender also have some cheep imports in their name?

And they have for quite a while in fact. My first decent steel string flat-top was a Korean made Fender F210, '82. (Japan was gettin' too expensive. ) By the time it was stolen I demanded an american made replacement and Fender had just aquired Guild. I went, I played, I scrambled to put money together for 2 days and went back and bought.
I can't really argue with the "progression to better guitars" idea.

 

[adorshki]

No worries Archie,
What is funny is that the GAD bashing has been around since the beginning of this current Guild forum (est. 1995). I did a search for GADs and found discussions that old. There is quite a wealth of pompous opinion and brutal honesty about the line. A lot has changed over the years, but 2 things have not: 1) several people's opinion about GADs and 2) the continuing existence and circulation of the line by Fender. One thing can not be denied. The GAD line introduces many many people to the world of Guild in the past 10 tumultuous years since Westerly closed.

Actually Ridge, GADs have only been around since after the move to Corona. Like 2004 I think.
First time I saw 'em was when I went to the Guild website after not looking for a couple of years, wanted to see what D25s were currently goin' for: "Hmmmm...Guild Acoustic Design....what's this? CHINESE GUILDS!?!?!?! WTF!?!?! Oh hey, here's a Richie Havens D40 model. Better get one while there's still any American made Guilds at all!"
Yeah, I was afraid Fender was going to make the brand ALL imports. The D25 had become a GAD25.
Say what we may about Fender, 6 years later we can still buy American made Guilds.
And since then, since joining here, I'm willing to let GADs be GADs.

 

[Ridgemont]

Aaaahhhhh! Typo typo!!!! I meant 2005. Sorry! I shall edit.

 

[adorshki]

I note a lot of similarities in tone and appearance and wonder if they are possibly made in the same Chinese factory.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. The salesman I bought my D25 from told me that once there was a massive Japanese manufacturing complex. In the continuous search for lower costs Korea became the country with a couple of massive complexes making just about all the imports (My Fender F210 acoustic), maufacturing "lots" according to a given brand's specs. Granted this is hearsay but it has the ring of truth. And it only makes sense that China's the next stop in the never-ending search for lower costs, using an already proven model. It really is a matter of survival as you say.

There's no real reason Chinese workmanship and production cannot or does not equal that of US workers. "Made in China" of course does not mean an instrument is inherently inferior. I do believe I understand and respect the sentiment many feel about American-made guitars, though.Wontox

Yep, no argument there. My desire for an American made instrument is entirely setimental. NO reason a guitar equal to any of mine couldn't be built in China, I just don't think they're tooled up and have all the materials for it. It's not what they're there for.

 

[adorshki]

Aaaahhhhh! Typo typo!!!! I meant 2005. Sorry! I shall edit.

You're the second person today to lose a decade. Gettin' old ain't as easy as it used to be, huh? :lol:
GAD's were on a 2004 price list though, now that I think about when I bought my D40. Hans thinks it's an '03, with a chance it might be an early '04, and I bought it new in October of '04. Point being it was on the same price list as the GAD's in late '04.

 

[Ridgemont]

By the way, doesn't Fender also have some cheep imports in their name?

Yeah they do, a high end boutique version of Squier. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I still can't figure out why they would try and tarnish the Fender name by doing that, and It doesn't fit with my examples from my original post. An anomaly. :wink:

 

[adorshki]

By the way, doesn't Fender also have some cheep imports in their name?

Yeah they do, a high end boutique version of Squier. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I still can't figure out why they would try and tarnish the Fender name by doing that, and It doesn't fit with my examples from my original post. An anomaly. :wink:

It also wouldn't surprise me if all those Fender acoustics hanging on the wall at Guitar Showcase in San Jose were actually built in the same place that makes the GADs. Little Design detail: When GAD's were introduced, Fender Logo'd acoustics started getting the rounder Guild-style heel, they used to use the traditional sharp-edged style. Read between those lines. (tooling) I noticed this in 2004 when I bought my D40 and again just about 6 months ago on the newest product.

 

[SkippyX]

What follows might just be the result of me having bonded w/ the acoustics I have. It could also be that I've only been playing for about 3 years now. It could also be that I've not had the opportunity to muck about w/ very many American-made Guilds. It could also be that my head is simply deeply implanted in my rear.

Who knows?

I've got two acoustics, both GAD-series (a GAD-50 and a GAD-G212). I love them both. Everybody who has played them loves them. My fiance was telling me that she overheard a conversation between a couple of mutual friends (both of whom play) where they were talking about the GADs - and both of them love my GADs. One of those guys has a Taylor and the other a lower-priced Martin. Both of them suffer from extreme Guild 12-string envy.

Truth be told, I wouldn't care if the name on the headstock was "Poopenstein". AFAICS they are really, really good guitars that I picked up for a fraction of what I would have to pay for anything else that sounded nearly as good. I'm in the GAD-50 for $475 (including HSC) and in the GAD-G212 for $350 (MIR blem from what I can tell, w/out case). I bought them both used. Both were former closet queens. The GAD-G212 still had the plastic protective coating covering the pickguard.

Let me reiterate. I have two sweet-sounding, solid body tone monsters, each purchased for the price of a cheap all-lam Fender acoustic.

Over the last few years I've taken many an opportunity to play supposedly "higher end" American-made guitars, and it's very rare for me to run across anything from another manufacturer that I like anywhere near as much as I like my Guilds. That includes Martin, Gibson, Breedlove, Taylor.

I played a small-bodied Recording King that was great ($650). I played a small-bodied Martin Clapton signature edition something or other (almost $3k). I tried out a Gallagher Dred that I liked alot ($2500 used). I tried out a Rainsong all-carbon fiber dred that sounded fantastic and had no interior bracing. $3k. Weird but cool - and no concerns about climate. I've only had the chance to play one American-made Guild - a late-model D50 (can't remember which factory). Great guitar that was way out of my price range.

I've read that the prime years/instruments for Guild where the Westerly ones - and I'm always on the lookout for one that I can get at a reasonable price. Unfortunately I'm in that economic class that has to be looking for a great deal - or else not have a guitar at all. I'm just glad that Guild produced the GAD series, because I think it's the single best "entry level" big-name manufacturers acoustic on the planet. Were it not for the GAD series, lord knows what I'd be playing.

Basically, when I see a discussion like this it reminds me of:

Should Guild also change the name of their Mexican-made DV series?

Meh. Better to let this dog lie. Maybe we can all agree on this:

Guild makes some damned fine guitars.

 

[Brad Little]

First, ever since I heard that Chinese made guitars were being branded as Guild, I felt that they should have revived the Madeira by Guild line, enough of a connection to draw on the Guild reputation without any possible confusion. There is still a perception on some lists that ALL Guilds are now made in China.
As to the fact that Fender branded acoustics are also sometimes (?) made in Asia, I never associated Fender with the same quality level as Guild for acoustic instruments, and except for a few models aimed at Nashville, I would think even their acoustic sales rely heavily on Strat/Tele players who aren't really familiar with acoustics in general.
Just my opinion, no real facts to back it up.
Brad

 

[Ridgemont]

First, ever since I heard that Chinese made guitars were being branded as Guild, I felt that they should have revived the Madeira by Guild line, enough of a connection to draw on the Guild reputation without any possible confusion. There is still a perception on some lists that ALL Guilds are now made in China.
As to the fact that Fender branded acoustics are also sometimes (?) made in Asia, I never associated Fender with the same quality level as Guild for acoustic instruments, and except for a few models aimed at Nashville, I would think even their acoustic sales rely heavily on Strat/Tele players who aren't really familiar with acoustics in general.
Just my opinion, no real facts to back it up.
Brad

The misconception that all Guilds are made in China is definitely there. That is the unfortunate side effect of the American Guild production being so low and the influx of GADs being so high.

But I have to tell you, a GAD was what brought me into the Guild line. And to be honest, if it said Madeira by Guild, I would not have bought it. Seeing the Guild on the headstock gave me a sense of comfort even though it is made in China. I bought my GAD for two reasons: 1)it sounded great and 2)it said Guild (a brand with a deep rooted history in American Guitars). In the 90's i bought a Sigma by Martin. It was fine for its purpose, but it didn't say Martin. If my GAD didn't say Guild on the headstock, I would probably be on the Martin forum right now talking about how great we are. :wink:

 

[Brad Little]

But I have to tell you, a GAD was what brought me into the Guild line. And to be honest, if it said Madeira by Guild, I would not have bought it. Seeing the Guild on the headstock gave me a sense of comfort even though it is made in China.

Good point. I used to recommend Madeira to my students when I taught, good entry level guitars (plus, to be honest, they were sold in the shop I taught in). But, I was already a Guild owner and admirer, having owned a D-50 and thin body archtop in addition to my 12 string, so maybe I'm a little prejudiced.
Brad