'99 CS X150

[micmac]

hello boys !
2 years after discovering Guild with a D55 , I'm glad to be back to introduce to you a 1999 Nashville Custom Shop X-150 , CHSB, DeArmond pickup

I'm so happy with my D55 that the idea to catch her electric hollowbody sister nibbles my brain since months. I hunted for a Starfire II or III, but old continent seems to be a very poor aera to hunt this kind of animal. Few days ago, I have the opportunity to try this X-150 , and well....you know, it was -as we say in french - " le coup de foudre " : she won as soon I play the first chord :mrgreen: ;-)

It's absolutly unationnal that a poor guitarist like me is purchasing a wonderfull jazz box, but I coudn't let it go away...

Seriouly, I didn't expect this level of quality : WOW :shock: :shock:

It's an amazing guitar : great acoustic sound, with an amazing but very "special" pickup.
Even nothing indicate on it, It should be a DeArmond 2000 model.

It's a Powerfull and very interesting pickup but with a ENORMOUS response in low range....
Make a long story short, I finally admit this pup is too specialized to keep in my main guitar : it's a killer for fingerpicking, fingerJazz and Bossa and maybe Rockab', but absolutly out of the point for basic strumming.
Don't get me wrong : more I play it, and more I like his hard character. But I simply need a more versatile pickup.... :?

SO, I'd like to have your advices about swapping this DeArmond for something... smoother and more balanced.

As a regular reader of LTG, I obviously heard a lot of good things about Franz pups. And since one of my best experience with Neck pup was with a weakly P90 mounted on a cheap Epi Casino, I believe that some lighter wounded P90 could give some very interesting results on hollowbodies. But Franz are history ... and hard to find today.
So, I also heard about a Lollar P90 that would correspond to Franz specs. Does anyboby would confirm ?

I guess that swapping for a P90 means modifying the guitar as it's certainly asking for route the table to enlarge the pup hole.... In one hand, I hate the idea of modifying this instrument, but in other hand I need a more versatile guitar...

Does anybody here have experiences with other P90 family pickup which could retrofit a DeArmond 2000 ?
Seymour Duncan Gretsch Talll boy ? http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/c ... h_tall_bo/
TVJones ? https://tvjones.com/pickups/tvht.html
Others ?

Thanks for your help boyz

And greetings from Paris

 

[AlohaJoe]

Micmac-
That is a beautiful guitar... the finish is stunning and the bound guard really adds something.

Here's a note I recently wrote about a Pete Biltoft pickup I put in my X150 that you might like... he was great to work with.
http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14909

Pete makes many style, incl P90s and he is here:
http://www.vintagevibeguitars.com/

Some pics of my finished X150:
http://letstalkguild.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15012

 

[AlohaJoe]

By the way, Pete should be able to make a pickup for you to fit the hole in your guitar if you give him the exact measurements... he does a lot of custom work like that.

 

[micmac]

hello joe !
Thank you very much for your help : I will contact VVG !

I like the natural finish of your X150 and this unbounded tortoise pickguard
And the design of the VVG pup adds the " Art Déco" final touch
Very nice guitar with her own sex-appeal !

Mic

 

[krysh]

congrats micmac, she's a beauty.

 

[micmac]

Viele Danke Michael
The guy who sold to me this guitar said to me that the original owner is a german. So it looks like the choice of this beautifull Cherry Heritage SunBurst finish came out the brain of a guy from your country :wink:
Tschuß

 

[Walter Broes]

I'm not against customising guitars, but I'd leave that one alone - as it's probably the only guitar out there with exactly that configuration!

One thing you could do, and that would probably work great, is try to locate a recent DeArmond 2000 pickup, like Guild used on the Rockabilly X160 and Gretsch used on imports recently : it should fit on the guitar without modifications, and is lower output, and a little more "well behaved" in the high and low end - it's almost like a slightly more full-frequency stratocaster pickup, if that makes sense.

Putting a notice you're looking for one on here and on gretschpages.com will probably land you one of those pickups sooner or later, and it shouldn't be very expensive.

I don't think a Franz pickup would be ideal either - the slight midrange bump those pickups have wouldn't be that great for strummy playing styles - and you'd have to cut into that beautiful guitar!

 

[krysh]

Viele Danke Michael
The guy who sold to me this guitar said to me that the original owner is a german. So it looks like the choice of this beautifull Cherry Heritage SunBurst finish came out the brain of a guy from your country :wink:
Tschuß

some germans have a good taste!

and +1 with walter, or the custom solution. you should not change anything in the structure of this guitar.
and sorry, je ne parlais francaise or sumthin' like this.

 

[micmac]

some germans have a good taste!

:lol: :lol: It proves one more time that good taste is not matter of nationality :wink:

 

[krysh]

right.

 

[micmac]

Thanks you very much for your help Walter !
( I apologize for a late answer, but it takes some times to find where I read what in seems to be the final word about Dearmond 2000 )

One thing you could do, and that would probably work great, is try to locate a recent DeArmond 2000 pickup, like Guild used on the Rockabilly X160 and Gretsch used on imports recently : it should fit on the guitar without modifications, and is lower output, and a little more "well behaved" in the high and low end - it's almost like a slightly more full-frequency stratocaster pickup, if that makes sense.

I am not aware of "recent" Dearmond 2000 model vs "old "Dearmond 2000... If I understand the explanation given by Bill Turner , there is only ONE model of Dearmond 2000 developped by Fender R&D:
"Here`s the story.
??The De Armond 2K and 2000 are wholly different animals. The 2K is configured like a P-90. Marketing wanted to create a jazz style pickup for the DeArmond guitars, and wanted to use the 2000 format. Personally, I would have liked to seen us release a RI 2000 to the market on a MIA guitar initially. This would have avoided some of the confusion that now exists between the models.  The De Armond guitar line took priority, and that meant that the 2K was developed first. There were no plans from marketing at the time to further develop the 2000.  As the 2k model began to come together, I and a good friend in R&D went ahead and designed parts for the 2000, and added these to the final set of drawings. Although there were no plans to use the parts that were designed for the 2000, they would be there when the time came. The opportunity came last year when Gretsch approached Fender about using the 2K on their guitars. Gretsch assumed that the pickup we were making for De Armond was a 2000 type model, and yes, it looks like one, but we knew that the 2K would not compliment the original Gretsch sound. This gave us the chance to push for the production of the 2000 and deliver it to Gretsch in the original 2000 config. The distinguishing feature for the Gretsch`s is that the 2000 does not sport the De Armond logo.  As we began to produce the 2000, interest grew to include the Guild Custom Shop, The Fender Custom Shop, and Guild guitars.So far, the exposure for the 2000 has been limited, but we are trying to expand it`s role on the guitar. ??As I said, the 2K is configured like a P-90.  The pole pieces and pole adjust screws are steel. The poles extend through the bobbin where they are trapped between a pair of like pole Alnico 5 bar magnets. The bobbin is surrounded by a thin steel U channel from below the bobbin to enhance the pickups inductance. ??
DC resistance: 7.4K ?                           Inductance: 6 Henries ??43 gage magnet wire ??
The sound is like a P-90, in that it is a very fat single coil, but not quite as heavy as a P-90. ??
The 2000 uses only 1/4 inch Alnico 5 pole pieces in the bobbin, the sound is bright with that great rockabilly snap. ??
DC resistance: 8.85K ?                           Inductance: 3.55 Henries ??44 gage magnet wire
??    - Bill Turner - Fender R&D USA, Jun 14th, 2000 10:39 AM"

So it's a little hard to believe that Guild Rockabilly X160 were mounted with different pickups than the one I have in my '99 CS X-150. I dunno if the ones in Rockab' X160 sport the Dearmond logo ( informations are welcomed !!! ) , but the one in mine doest NOT. And it seems that middle class Gretschs were mounted with the same pickup ( without the logo ) during several months ( or maybe several years ).
As far as I understand , Gretsch has later developped their own Dynasonic reedition and these ones are supposed to give some better results than Dearmond 2000 ( but TVjones' Magnatones, or SeymourDuncan CS Dynasonic seems to be better)
Do you talk about these Gretsch Dynasonic RI, Walter ?

 

[Walter Broes]

The pickup that's in your guitar is a Gretsch reissue Dynasonic, same as fitted to Gretsch's current "pro" series guitars, and it's a recreation of a 50's DeArmond pickup. (they came on Gretsches until late 57, Guilds from the late 50's until 63, and later on customs and specials. These have the gigantic magnet structure like the pickup in your pic, great sound, but not the easiest pickup in the world to amplify or balance from string to string, and not for any and every kind of music.

The DeArmond 2000 pickup that Bill turner developed is sort of similar in that it has alnico magnet poles, but the magnet poles are much smaller and shorter than on the original 50's item - making it kind of a "DeArmond light" compared to the 50's item - or indeed the recreation currently used on Gretsch's pro line.

The 2000 pickup was used on the Guild Rockabilly, the custom shop M70's, and it was used on more recent Gretsch's Korean offerings, the electromatic series, but never on their Japanese made "professional series" Gretsches. The ones used on Guilds had white tops, and a "DeArmond" logo on the side of the pickup. They're definitely not what's in your guitar, trust me.

The Bill Turner-DeArmond 2000 is a cool pickup in it's own right - a little weak and lacking for someone who's looking for that huge voice of a 50's DeArmond pickup, but I think in your case, it might exactly be the pickup you're looking for - a lot easier to amplify, not as Godzilla- loud and big sounding, and a lot more versatile and easier to set up.

I actually think your guitar probably came from the factory with a DeArmond 2000 pickup, and somebody replaced that with a Gretsch reissue "Dynasonic" - Gretsch guitars are under Fender's wing these days, as Guild was since 1995, but Fender's only been busy with Gretsch since 2003, and your guitar was most likely made before that.
Hans could probably tell if you supplied him with your guitar's serial number.

Then again, if your guitar was a customer specified custom order, anything is possible I guess....?

 

[micmac]

:shock: So , you mean , Walter, that the pup in my X-150 is NOT a DeArmond 2000 ??? :shock:
In fact, I've already found a page that confirms what you say ( but I thought it was en error since that didn't match with what I have)
http://www.ggjaguar.com/dyna2000.htm
For sure, this one seems to be like mine

and you confirm this other is the one that is mounted in Guild Rockab' X160 ?

 

[Graham]

That is a gorgeous guitar micmac! :shock:

 

[Walter Broes]

MicMac, yes, yes, and yes.

The top picture you posted is a reissue Gretsch Dynasonic, the bottom one a recent DeArmond 2000 pickup as used on the Guild X160 Rockabilly.

 

[southernGuild]

Hi Micmac......I cant add anything to the technical side of this one, but I do enjoy reading and learning about it all. THAT is one beauty of a guitar! I can easily see how you fell for that one! .....She would have had me at first sight! a bit of playing would have only been positive confirmation . I think a fine guitar LIFTS our playing ability......MAKES us want to play more, learn more....ENJOY more! SEE where this one takes YOU.
Looks like shes in good hands there! all the best. Southern :wink:

 

[micmac]

That is a gorgeous guitar micmac! :shock:

thanks you Graham and SoutherGuild :wink:
I must admit her dress was one of the reason I proposed to the seller to come at my home to let me try.
But I really decided to buy her when I took her in my arms and when my hands found the same feeling I have with my D55.
(and when I realized she was mounted with 013 strings, I'd just could not believe it :shock: )
This neck is a dream to play : every friends that tried the guitar have found it absolutly perfect. Big hands, litlle hands, rock players, jazz players (even a bassist )... , everybody find themselves very confortable and inspired by this guitar.
The acoustic sound is absolutly gorgeous. Yesterday evening, I played unpluggged in a Café ( after some friends want I take it out of the box and then give a try to her ) and everybody congrats me about the warm sound that come from this beautifull guitar

Just to say that her voice rise at the level of her dress ( bad try to cite and translate Lafontaine :lol:
http://www.learn-to-speaker.com/French/French49.htm )

 

[micmac]

MicMac, yes, yes, and yes.

The top picture you posted is a reissue Gretsch Dynasonic, the bottom one a recent DeArmond 2000 pickup as used on the Guild X160 Rockabilly.

Hollyshit !
As I suppose that the Nashville CS didn't propose to install some Grestch product in june 1999 - what do you think Hans? -, it seems that the original owner has "upgraded" the original pup...:wink:

That's really funny to me to realize that this pup is theorically a class upper than I thought , but that absolutly makes sens to me: as I wrote, I never thought that was a a bad pup: just not a one to strum with (but a killer - IMO- for fingerpicking , arpeges, soloing, .... )
Thanks you so much for your help, Walter (and good night)
Now I have to think about all I learned this evening

 

[Walter Broes]

Mic Mac - I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but I think most people (including myself) into DeArmond pickups would consider the pickup that's now on your guitar an upgrade - it's more expensive, in any case!

I just think the 2000 pickup would be better suited to your playing style.

 

[micmac]

Mic Mac - I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but I think most people (including myself) into DeArmond pickups would consider the pickup that's now on your guitar an upgrade - it's more expensive, in any case!

I just think the 2000 pickup would be better suited to your playing style.

Everything is clear ( almost clearer than before :wink: )
Thank you again, Walter
I think it will be very easy to catch and give a try to a "real" DeArmond2000 since a lot of people buying Korean Gretsches want to upgrade their pup for TVJones Classics.