90s Songbird

[rodvillarreal]

Hi,
I've got a sweet Songbird that I've named Eva. I'd like to explore if there are any modern electronics updates/replacement that would get her sounding current. I was checking out the Fender Acoustisonics today. VERY impressive guitars (I didn't buy one) and they sound AMAZING.

I'd really like to get Eva a rejuvenation surgery.

IDEAS?

~Rod

 

[cupric]

I thought along the same lines. It seems to me that the Songbird, and GX series, were on the same thought pattern. And they sound great for a thirty year old pickup system.
The external pup would obviously require modification. But I wonder about the other two? pickup systems.
Great topic!
Here's my 1990 GX.

 

[adorshki]

Hi,
I've got a sweet Songbird that I've named Eva. I'd like to explore if there are any modern electronics updates/replacement that would get her sounding current. I was checking out the Fender Acoustisonics today. VERY impressive guitars (I didn't buy one) and they sound AMAZING.

I'd really like to get Eva a rejuvenation surgery.

IDEAS?

~Rod

Welcome aboard Rod!

Lotta Songbird love around here, and re pickup updates, I think @Nuuska's your man, although now I think I recall another member who did some heavy modding the point of adding a magnetic p/u in the soundhole and modding wiring so he had a 2-pickup system...he wanted it to be switchable?

Don't think that was Nuuska himself but think he participated in that the thread, so maybe he'll remember.

While maybe a bit more extreme than what you're contemplating, there were still some good electrical theory observations in there which may come in handy to know about, for the "average joe".

That's where Nuuska knows his stuff.

Oh yeah he's got 2 of 'em himself.

 

[Nuuska]

If I remember correctly it was SWIVELTUNG who installed a humbucker into sound hole.

I've done the same later - and am in process to find 4-pole jack to install in place of present 3-pole jack.

Wiring will be
- tip - humbucker hot
- 1st ring - piezo preamp out
- 2nd ring - battery negative
- ground

I have not bothered w updating onboard preamp while I have digital mixing console w 6-band full parametric EQ on each channel plus endless inserting options for extra processing.

If I were to use Songbird w normal guitar amp - then things would be different - again depending on amp.

But even then I'd concider a processing box between guitar and amp. The most important function for preamp is to provide VERY high input impedance for the piezo.

My Guild B-30 bass has same preamp and sounds just great. But there is split saddle - and two pickups - and they both are made different than normal guitar pickups. There is a tiny piezo disc under each string - I had to open them and repair because they were shorting. This construction means that two strings are pressing on two points - instead of six strings producing possibly uneven pressure on a long piezo.







A possibility could be to source those mini piezo discs and have 3 double pups under 3-piece saddle. Two new cable holes need to be drilled - all 3 pups are to be wired parallel on present preamp.

Or - one could experiment w simply replacing present one piece saddle w 6 individual pieces.


My both 12-strings + F50R + baby Gibson all have piezo + humbucker and stereo jack - no preamps on board.
Stereo Y-cable w two mono jacks on other end for separate processing of each pup.

Finally - for what it is worth - when I play plugged in - my goal is NOT to create "normal" acoustic guitar sound - but a sound that fits my fingerstyle playing.

 

[plaidseason]

Any of the current Fishman onboard systems would be an improvement - and Fishman support is second to none and will surely provide advice.

My suggestion would be to replace the under saddle pickup with a Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker and have a tech wire that into the preamp as a replacement to the under saddle pickup. It will then run off the 9v and use the onboard EQ.

 

[adorshki]

If I remember correctly it was SWIVELTUNG who installed a humbucker into sound hole.

YES!! Couldn't remember his name, but yes it was Swiveltung.

 

[Nuuska]

Any of the current Fishman onboard systems would be an improvement - and Fishman support is second to none and will surely provide advice.

My suggestion would be to replace the under saddle pickup with a Fishman Rare Earth Humbucker and have a tech wire that into the preamp as a replacement to the under saddle pickup. It will then run off the 9v and use the onboard EQ.

If one should want to try that - it is quite simple - the pup is connected via terminal block w 2 screws - just unscrew - pull old cables out - insert new cables - tighten.

And it can be done just via back door.

 

[Dadzmad]

I have a very late model S4CE that I got when they were still being made in Westerly. It has a Fishman UST and preamp with the sliders. I was never really happy with the sound (quacky) even though I have a nice Trace Elliot acoustic amp for it. Adding an electromagnetic pickup to this guitar never appealed to me as it was designed to have the vibrations of the wood amplified. What I did was add a "Pick Up the World" soundboard transducer (Quackbuster) mounted behind the bridge wired in parallel with the UST. It is a tough install in the thin body but the added transducer totally transformed the sound of the guitar for the better. It even sounds nice through a tube amp now. This is the PUW spiel on this:

How does the Quack Buster work?
1. The Quack Buster produces between 20 and 30% of the over-all signal (depending on the output strength of the saddle pickup), and captures a sense of 'air' as well as the wood & personality of the guitar. Saddle pickups do no do this because they are focused primarily on picking up the strings.
2. The Quack Buster eliminates the irritating 'piezo quack' of saddle pickups by temporarily absorbing the over-voltage spikes that are the cause of this type of distortion. This unique benefit is caused by the capacitance of the Quack Buster temporarily absorbing, then smoothly releasing the over-voltage spikes produced by the saddle pickup.
3. The Quack Buster improves feedback rejection by drifting slightly out of phase with the saddle pickup signal when the guitar begins to go into a feedback mode. There is no loss of detail or other strange artifacts caused by this, and volume levels can be typically raised by a factor of ten before filtering or monitor levels need to be adjusted.

The sonic effect is that the UST has the role of a bridge pickup and the SBT has the role of a neck pickup on a guitar like my Tele. I found the downside is that you get 1/2 of the 9v battery life for the onboard preamp with the extra transducer. I also did not want to make any permanent mods to the guitar as I think the Songbirds/S4CE models are sleepers. The way I look at this guitar design with the thin high grade spruce top on the thick mahogany body - is similar to having a piece of spring steel in a vice - you can feel the vibrations long after you stop hearing them. This is what the twin transducers are intended to amplify. (vs metal moving through a magnetic field) Sorry for the long post.

 

[grmps]

Really, any tech/luthier that is half decent should be able to replace it with pretty much whatever you want.

 

[rodvillarreal]

I thought along the same lines. It seems to me that the Songbird, and GX series, were on the same thought pattern. And they sound great for a thirty year old pickup system.
The external pup would obviously require modification. But I wonder about the other two? pickup systems.
Great topic!
Here's my 1990 GX.

She's beautiful!

 

[rodvillarreal]

I thought along the same lines. It seems to me that the Songbird, and GX series, were on the same thought pattern. And they sound great for a thirty year old pickup system.
The external pup would obviously require modification. But I wonder about the other two? pickup systems.
Great topic!
Here's my 1990 GX.

That guitar is beautiful! I'm looking for a drop in "solution".