67 Starfire bass with pickguard?

[mellowgerman]

Today on facebook I saw a fella from Venezuela post a photo of his 1967 Guild Starfire bass. The bizarre thing is that it has a pickguard. I automatically assumed it would have to have been either a custom ordered spec or an owner at some point modified a 6-string Starfire guitar's pickguard to fit this bass. However, he says that he bought it (along with a Starfire guitar) from the original owner, who had bought both for his restaurant back in the 60's. He said that he doubts the original owner would have added it since he didn't really know much about what he had. Is this possible to have been factory original? Of course we know Guild to have been no strangers to variation, but it always seemed to have been variations out of necessity (using up parts and working with what's on hand), not so much creative exploration impulse (Hey! Let's see if this fits here!)
Or maybe it was an overly ambitious rookie factory worker's mistake that ended up going out the door anyway?
Has anybody else seen this before on another example? In about 15 years of tracking Guild basses, I definitely have not!

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Well I believe it's an early bass because of the straight bridhge vs the "harp" bridge. Not sure when the "suck switch" showed up. The pick-up cut-outs look a little rough but even though I like it!!!!

 

[fronobulax]

Never seen it before. Given the number of things people don't remember doing to their instruments half a century ago, I don't place much stock in the current owner's opinion of what the previous owner was capable of doing.

Bass bothers me. The number of instruments we have seen with the straight bridge and the tone switch can be counted on one hand and probably one finger.

While we can construct scenarios where Guild, or the Guild dealer who made the original sale did the work, I'm pretty comfortable is claiming it was not sold as new, by Guild, in that condition.

1967 date seems right.

I have, of course, been wrong before.

 

[mellowgerman]

I think it looks great too! Sits neatly in between the front and back controls. I thought the edges around the bridge pickup looked a bit rough, but that could also just be the angle at which the photo was taken or just how the pickguard is sitting on the bass. They have that little sliding fastening bracket underneath, so it may have just shifted a bit too before the photo was taken.

 

[SFIV1967]

At least the catalog didn't offer a pickguard option. So either a "special order" or simply an aftermarket addition. The pickguard is the correct 1967 style.

Ralf

 

[lungimsam]

'67 catalogue says the pup is functioning on the hum bucking principle and is an anti hum pickup. Their words.
Peruvian rosewood board.
Interesting. Are they saying these early Bisonics were hum buckers, cuz my NS Starfire pup certainly was not. Do you guys who own vintage Bisonics get rf and ac noise in them or no?

 

[mavuser]

would like to see the label and serial number. the suck switch together with the straight bridge is super rare. this is the second one i know of. however, it would make more sense on a SF-2 bass like this (that may have started internally as a SF-1 bass w straight bridge, and been completed w second pickup and suck switch later...). the other one i know of is a SF-1 bass w straight bridge and suck switch together, in time capsule original condition.

the pick guard is wild!!

 

[mellowgerman]

'67 catalogue says the pup is functioning on the hum bucking principle and is an anti hum pickup. Their words.
Peruvian rosewood board.
Interesting. Are they saying these early Bisonics were hum buckers, cuz my NS Starfire pup certainly was not. Do you guys who own vintage Bisonics get rf and ac noise in them or no?

Bisonics have never bucked hum. I would say "unfortunately" before that statement, but making them humbuckers would change the sound! Even if it was just a dummy coil. Maybe whoever was writing up the promo material mistook the fact that the dual pickup Starfires do cancel hum when both pickups are fully engaged. At least they should if they have a RWRP pickup set. I have read that some did not humcancel, in which case they probably ended up with two neck pickups or two bridge pickups.

 

[twocorgis]

I like it! Nothing beats Hoboken mojo, and if the PG isn't original, at least it's well done.

 

[fronobulax]

'67 catalogue says the pup is functioning on the hum bucking principle and is an anti hum pickup. Their words.
Peruvian rosewood board.
Interesting. Are they saying these early Bisonics were hum buckers, cuz my NS Starfire pup certainly was not. Do you guys who own vintage Bisonics get rf and ac noise in them or no?

Catalog is simply wrong.

It's an Anti-Hum in the 65-66 catalog here. https://www.gad.net/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Guild-1965-1966-Catalog.pdf

The 1970 catalog calls them New Anti-Hum. https://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/07/22/guild-guitar-catalog-1970/guild-1970-catalog-pg5_1600/

The 1971 calls what we call the Guild Humbucker 'New Humbucking". https://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/07/22...og-1971/guild-1971-catalog-electric-pg3_1600/

Alternatively "Anti-Hum" as applied to a Bisonic means single coil with some secret sauce so that it doesn't hum as much as it did without the secret sauce.

And my '67, Newark Street and Novak BSDS all pick up more hum than any of my basses with a real humbucker. Indeed I once tracked down some RF interference to a washing machine that was one floor down and one room over.

 

[lungimsam]

What’s that transformer looking thingy in the BiSonic cavitys of the ‘60’s? Maybe that is the secret sauce?

 

[mellowgerman]

What’s that transformer looking thingy in the BiSonic cavitys of the ‘60’s? Maybe that is the secret sauce?

No secret sauce there, unfortunately. The transformer thingy is a choke, one of the key elements of the "tone suck"/"tone dump" switch. I can confirm that, when removed from the circuit, no extra hum is exhibited.

 

[mavuser]

I believe the Hagstrom Bisonics may be "split single coils" however they are *not in "humbucking position." A P-bass or Mustang bass pickup would be a "split single coil" *in "humbucking position"

 

[fronobulax]

What’s that transformer looking thingy in the BiSonic cavitys of the ‘60’s? Maybe that is the secret sauce?

That is what connects to the tone switch. Feel free to search for discussions about that. Since Guild used "Anti-Hum" before and after the switch was introduced, that transformer is not part of the secret sauce. And I chose that term as a collective noun so I did not have to speculate on possible technologies behind what I believe is just marketing speak with no basis in technology.

 

[fronobulax]

The Facebook post with this instrument added two interesting points. First, someone who is probably Hans, is in contact with the owner. Second, it was purchased in NYC at the same time as a 6 stringed Starfire. (Notice how I avoid having to figure out model numbers).

Thus it is very easy, now, for me to imagine the buyer asked the shop for "twins" and the selling dealer added the pickguard to make the sale and keep the customer happy.

 

[mellowgerman]

The Facebook post with this instrument added two interesting points. First, someone who is probably Hans, is in contact with the owner. Second, it was purchased in NYC at the same time as a 6 stringed Starfire. (Notice how I avoid having to figure out model numbers).

Thus it is very easy, now, for me to imagine the buyer asked the shop for "twins" and the selling dealer added the pickguard to make the sale and keep the customer happy.

I had to revisit the original facebook post to check, but I don't see any mention of NYC there... as far as I understand this set of Guilds was purchased new in Venezuela back in the 60's for a local restaurant/bar, by the owner of said establishment. Which also factored into my thought of maybe it was a factory-flub by a new employee and they thought, well let's send it to Venezuela (where I'd imagine there were very few Starfire basses to compare it to)

 

[fronobulax]

I had to revisit the original facebook post to check, but I don't see any mention of NYC there... as far as I understand this set of Guilds was purchased new in Venezuela back in the 60's for a local restaurant/bar, by the owner of said establishment. Which also factored into my thought of maybe it was a factory-flub by a new employee and they thought, well let's send it to Venezuela (where I'd imagine there were very few Starfire basses to compare it to)

He posted it to one of the Guild Guitar Groups.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

"They are brothers, bought in New York in the late 1960s on the same day from the same store."

and in a reply from the poster

"has been a topic of discussion in other groups, the person who wrote the GUILD instruments bible contacted me to find out a little more "

which sounds like a reference to this thread.

Edit: Fixed one typo and observed that the FB link might not make sense unless you are logged into FB.

 

[mellowgerman]

He posted it to one of the Guild Guitar Groups.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

"They are brothers, bought in New York in the late 1960s on the same day from the same store."

and in a reply from the poster

"has been a topic of discussion in other groups, the person who wrote the GUILD instruments bible contacted me to find out a little more "

which sounds like a reference to this tread.

Oh I see now. I didn't see that post actually! There is a "vintage Guild bass" group where I saw the owner post the bass and engaged in discussion with him. He is in contact with Hans, yes, so hopefully we'll be getting some news on this mystery machine!

 

[Minnesota Flats]

If somebody will buy me that bass, I'll gladly award them the pick guard as a commission...

 

[Guildedagain]

Has a bound headstock?

The PG prob just needs to be pushed back towards the p'ups, they do slide away if the screw/nut are a little loose.

It would be interesting to see the contours of the p'up openings in the guard. Is this a home job or factory, although you can do just as fine of work at home.

Guild obviously didn't believe that any kind of pickguard is necessary on a bass, but they could have put one on as a special order.

There's no finger rest holes visible, possibly adding to the possible originalilty of the guard to the bass.

2 single coils wound opposite hum cancel cancel hum wired in series.