'66 Guild X-500 Ebony Special - Custom Order?

[JazzWest]

Check this X-500 out, guess the original owner wanted on very specific...

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1966-Guild- ... 7C294%3A50


Hans, what do you make of this one? Legit?

 

[gilded]

Man, I want it to be legit!! I'm watching it!!

 

[teleharmonium]

That thing is hot; the finish looks right to me; the pickguard is a real puzzler, though.

 

[walrus]

I posted about this guitar on the "eBay" forum - I, too, wonder about the pickguard. What a very sweet guitar!

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11779

walrus

 

[jp]

That really is sweet! Most peculiar for a --'66. Waiting for Hans to chime in on lineage.

 

[hansmoust]

Check this X-500 out, guess the original owner wanted on very specific...

Hans, what do you make of this one? Legit?

Hello JazzWest,

This guitar was for sale in 2001 somewhere near Boston if I remember correctly. At that time I already asked some questions but I never got a 'decent' answer.
It very well could have gotten the 'Special' designation just for the Deluxe Kolb machineheads.
The pickguard is an original Guild pickguard that's painted white from the backside instead of the usual black. I have no way of knowing if the guitar was outfitted with that guard originally. I guess if somebody ordered it like that! The color of the logo and the 'star' look black instead of the usual gold, so that makes me lean towards original.

There are 2 reasons why I still have doubts though:
1) If it is original why didn't they use the pickguard with the extra line following the outside contour, which was standard on the X-500?

2) If it is original, why is the white paint on the guard so white? That should be very off-white ( = creme ) after 40 years. Maybe it's just the photo!

However, having said that, the originality of the pickguard would not be an issue for me if I would be interested in the guitar. I think the black finish is really cool. I would have preferred nickel/chrome hardware though!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Hans, did they ever do nickle on a X-500? That would be sweet!

 

[hansmoust]

Hans, did they ever do nickle on a X-500? That would be sweet!

Hello Grot,

Oh yes, you could order it. That's what they did with my Starfire VI.

http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/gallery_detail.php?id=77

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[jp]

I think the black finish is really cool. I would have preferred nickel/chrome hardware though!

Same for me. I've never really cared for gold hardware, especially since it fades so quickly. The only place it ever seemed appropriate to me was on a White Falcon.

Thanks for the background info on the X-500, and that's a gorgeous SF VI, Hans. I've seen it at your site, but I didn't know it was yours.

 

[gilded]

Check this X-500 out, guess the original owner wanted on very specific...

Hans, what do you make of this one? Legit?

If it is original why didn't they use the pickguard with the extra line following the outside contour, which was standard on the X-500?

Hans, I have a question for your consideration in this matter, concerning your observation that the pickguard didn't use the 'extra line following the outside visible contour' of the 'guard.

I wonder if you could clarify how the pickguard 'logos and extra lines' were made in the '60's? Were these features 'painted on'? If so, were they done 'freehand' or was a template set against the back of the guard and the paint applied at that point?

Would the logos and extra lines be 'decals' that were applied before the final pickguard color was applied? If so, is there any reason that the factory should have black logo decals in stock, but not the outside line decals in that color?

What do you think?

 

[hansmoust]

Hans, I have a question for your consideration in this matter, concerning your observation that the pickguard didn't use the 'extra line following the outside visible contour' of the 'guard.

I wonder if you could clarify how the pickguard 'logos and extra lines' were made in the '60's? Were these features 'painted on'? If so, were they done 'freehand' or was a template set against the back of the guard and the paint applied at that point?

Would the logos and extra lines be 'decals' that were applied before the final pickguard color was applied? If so, is there any reason that the factory should have black logo decals in stock, but not the outside line decals in that color?

What do you think?

Hello gilded,

Actually, I know exactly how these were made. They were silkscreened on the back of the plexiglass in gold and after drying a layer of black was added, which turned the plexiglass into a black looking piece of plastic. With the silkscreening they could use any color, so black would not be a problem. For this particular guitar I would think they would have used the silkscreen with the extra border line.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[gilded]

Hello gilded,

Actually, I know exactly how these were made. They were silkscreened on the back of the plexiglass in gold and after drying a layer of black was added, which turned the plexiglass into a black looking piece of plastic. With the silkscreening they could use any color, so black would not be a problem. For this particular guitar I would think they would have used the silkscreen with the extra border line.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

I thought you'd know! Alright, does the fact that the pickguard does not have the extra border line, taken together with the fact that the white paint appears very white (and therefore, 'newer') make you think that the guard might be an authentic Guild guard, but from a later time period? Also, does the case look 'mid sixties', to you, or later??

Harry

 

[hansmoust]

Alright, does the fact that the pickguard does not have the extra border line, taken together with the fact that the white paint appears very white (and therefore, 'newer') make you think that the guard might be an authentic Guild guard, but from a later time period? Also, does the case look 'mid sixties', to you, or later??

Harry

Hello again Harry,

As I pointed out in my earlier posting, I have some doubts but everything looks legitimate and it's a Guild pickguard. I wasn't there at the time and I have no other white guard to compare it with so, how can I be sure?

The case however is an early to mid-'70s case.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[gilded]

Thanks, Hans. Appreciate you. HH

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Well I drove down to check this guitar out in person. The guy that runs the ebay sales wasn't there but luckly the sales guy that was there was able to find the hidden X-500.

Well I will now be passing on bidding for this guitar so it's wide open for you Gilded.

While the auction pix are pretty good, they really don't portray the condition acurately. The scratches below the pickguard stand out much more then in the pictures. There's also a lot of arm sweat on the lower bass bout which looks like it has dulled the finish.(I've never really had much success getting that stuff off.)

The back is totally flamed, but the finish only accents the "edges" of the maple.

The gold, as usual, looks like crap.

The pickguard is not a white as in the photos. Instead of the usual notches in the guard for the pick-up adjustment screws there are holes. You can also see the masking tape that's on the bottom of the guard where the mount is through the top of the guard.

I would put the condition of this guitar at an 7.75.

It looks a lot nicer in the pictures. When I opened the case I was a little disappointed and it didn't say "TAKE ME HOME!".

Of course this is just one man's opinion, take it for what it's worth!

 

[gilded]

Grot, old man,

Thanks, for checking it out, now I don't have to torture myself over it.

Funny stuff, that sweated-on lacquer. I think that probably 'all' the lacquer in those spots has been chemically altered by the
sweat and you can't polish down far enough to hit stable lacquer. It's more like you have to overspray that area. I would think that would be hard to do over black....

 

[Guildmark]

Certainly appreciate you checking this one out, Kurt. For a collector, it doesn't sound like it justifies the seller's asking price. How did she sound, though? Did you get a chance to plug her in? A buyer might be comfortable if she has the Guild "Made to be Played" bonafides, even if she has to look a little odd.

Sorry she didn't qualify for the "Grotto of Guilds".

 

[The Guilds of Grot]

Alas, I didn't get to play it!

Due to an unforseen incident, I didn't get to the store until 10 minutes before closing. :?

 

[dlnolet]

While I'm certainly no expert, I was looking at the guitar and think it is a very interesting custom ordered piece. I think the guitar is really an A-500 with integrated pickups and a custom finish. A close examination of the pictures appears to show a 2 piece front and back. The X-500 designation is there only because of the integrated pick ups.

Best regards,

Dave

 

[hansmoust]

I think the guitar is really an A-500 with integrated pickups and a custom finish. A close examination of the pictures appears to show a 2 piece front and back. The X-500 designation is there only because of the integrated pick ups.

Best regards,

Dave

Hello Dave,

While it is certainly a nice idea to play around with, it is definitely not the case here:

1) All X-500s have a two piece top, albeit a laminated top. The outside spruce veneer does have a joint in the center.

2) An A-500 would have had a 2-piece back but this is definitely not a 2-piece back ( I'm talking again about the outside veneer) but a 1-piece back. You may think you see a center-seam but you should take a good look at this photo, which shows a typical cut for a veneer. Look at the patterns (not the flame) like if you were looking at a map; the lighter colored lines would be kind of a coastline.

Now there would be an interruption of the 'coastline' pattern if there was a center seam. Instead there is a continuing pattern from treble to bass side.

3) If it started life as an A-500, the model designation would have been A-500 Special, not X-500 Special.

4) The serial number prefix (which by the way reads DA and not DH as mentioned in the auction description) is for an X-500. If it had been an A-500, the serial number prefix would have been AF.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl