1978 F212XL Needs TLC

[kostask]

The strings not being equidistant from the edge of the fingerboard can be caused by a couple of reasons. The first, of course is that the nut (or possibly saddle) is improperly cut. The other reason is that the neck is not glued to the neck block quite square.

The nut and/or saddle not being cut properly is easy to correct. The neck not being put on square is something that can only be corrected by a neck reset. Before jumping to that conclusion, a lot of very careful measurements must be made.

 

[gjmalcyon]

The strings not being equidistant from the edge of the fingerboard can be caused by a couple of reasons. The first, of course is that the nut (or psossibly saddle) is improperly cut.

This photo suggests that a new nut would fix it if it presents a problem (like strings slipping over the edge of the fingerboard):

 

[tuckfoot]

I have not had a problem with strings slipping over the edge of the fingerboard. I'll speak to the luthier about the nut.

Do these measurements seem reasonable for a 42 year old F-212XL?
Action at 12th 6/64"(low E) to 4-5/64" (high E) Relief .002"
I would love the action to be a bit lower, but there's a tendency for the low E to buzz at the 2nd fret, and I'm not ready for a neck reset right now.

 

[wileypickett]

Since your guitar has two truss rods, it's possible that loosening the bass side truss rod will give the neck a bit more bow on that side and eliminate the buzzing.

Your luthier can best advise you with the guitar in hand.

 

[Br1ck]

IMHO, your guitar needs a competent luthier. You have a lot of saddle left to lower the action, but the bridge should be replaced. If you want to, capo at the first fret, hold the strings down at the 14th, and with a feeler gauge, cheap at any auto parts store, measure the distance between the fret and string. Should be .008 to .012 or so. This is subjective. I'd highly recommend a fret level and crown to insure the top of your frets are level. Ideally the straight edge should be even with the top of the bridge. You may want to bite the bullet now and shotgun every possible problem, but the saddle shows enough that you could probably put a neck set off for a while. I'd start with a level and crown and a new bridge.

 

[tuckfoot]

Been a while since I checked in on the status of my F-212XL -- a bit too much going on!

The guitar tech I used in San Antonio was a big disappointment. He did a nice repair of the cracked bridge (see earlier photos), but he completely ignored doing anything about the buzzing, which is now worse than before he fixed the bridge.

There is unacceptable buzz on E and A strings in first and second frets, even though the low side truss rod is completely loose. Don't know what to do next.

The feel and tone of this guitar is exquisite. The buzz needs to be addressed.

 

[geoguy]

The nut slots are probably cut a little too low, resulting in buzzing at the first & second frets. Truss rod adjustments would only address buzzing farther up the fretboard.

The nut slots for the buzzing strings could be back-filled with baking soda & superglue, and re-cut (but not so deep).

Or, if you are going to ship it out for a neck reset, a new nut could be made & installed at that time.

 

[tuckfoot]

The nut slots are probably cut a little too low, resulting in buzzing at the first & second frets. Truss rod adjustments would only address buzzing farther up the fretboard.

The nut slots for the buzzing strings could be back-filled with baking soda & superglue, and re-cut (but not so deep).

Or, if you are going to ship it out for a neck reset, a new nut could be made & installed at that time.

The buzzing is not present on open strings. The buzz occurs when fretting (or using a capo) on low E and A in first and second frets. And only the low octave of each course. Please explain why that could be the nut slots. Once I finger or capo in the second fret, isn't the nut out of the picture? Seems to me the issue would be neck angle or saddle, but I'm just a humble player and not a guitar tech

 

[kostask]

From your description, it could be that one side of the frets is low, and when you fret the strings, the string is not completely terminated. The frets could also be worn. Are there noticeable flat spots on the first and second frets at the positions where the E and A strings would be? Do you typically play a lot of notes/chords on the first and second fret position using the E and A strings? You can check it with a short straight edge, or a fret rocker if you have one. The other thing is to have a luthier look at it, as always.

 

[tuckfoot]

The other thing is to have a luthier look at it, as always.

Which brings me to the Big Dilemma. How does one find a qualified luthier willing to take on a vintage (1979) Guild project? So much is written here about how few are willing to work on an old Guild neck. I'm willing to make calls, I just don't know who to call. I appreciate all ideas

 

[fronobulax]

Which brings me to the Big Dilemma. How does one find a qualified luthier willing to take on a vintage (1979) Guild project? So much is written here about how few are willing to work on an old Guild neck. I'm willing to make calls, I just don't know who to call. I appreciate all ideas

The first questions concern location. if you are willing to ship, Tom Jacobs http://www.jacobscustomguitars.com/about/ is the LTG go to. He worked in Westerly and the number of Guilds he has worked on for LTG members is easily in the double digits.

If you want something more local, then where would that be? I think there are some names basically along I95 between DC and NYC folks could give you. Elderly https://www.elderly.com/ in Michigan gets mentioned and I think with some searching there are a couple of names in SoCAL.

 

[geoguy]

I believe tuckfoot currently resides in Mexico, frono.

The issue with Guild "neck work" is actually re: neck resets. Some repair people think Guild neck resets are more difficult compared to other brands of guitars, and are accordingly unwilling to perform one.

But your issue now sounds like a problem with frets, as kostask stated above. That should be routine work for most repair shops. I would try calling shops in Texas, as was previously suggested.

If you want to investigate a bit further yourself, you could use a credit card as a short straight-edge, & see if it rocks when you place it on the second or third fret, near the E/A strings. If it rocks on the second fret (i.e. dips down toward both the first & third frets), then the second fret is high relative to its neighbors.

 

[tuckfoot]

Thank you, frono, and correct, geoguy, I do live in Monterrey, Mexico. I can get the guitar to the US (not cheap, but not hard).

After two wasted efforts with a well known San Antonio guitar tech, I'm not in the mood to mess around any more. The next person I ship to has to be able to fully diagnose the problems and recommend the right solution including neck reset, if indicated.

I'll call Tom Jacobs tomorrow, though I have a funny feeling he is swamped with work.

Names of other Guild-friendly repair shops would be appreciated, wherever they may be

Muchas gracias a todos

 

[fronobulax]

@gilded likes his luthier in Texas. Calling out some of the other Texans might generate some names as well.

 

[Br1ck]

If you are going to keep the guitar for the long term, I'd be prepared to go all in on a Guild of this vintage. Certainly needs a good repair tech assessment. All things should be considered. Is there a belly behind the bridge? Condition of the frets and neck in general should be considered. But to me, the guitar is on the edge. It seems to be in great cosmetic shape. Maybe get it band aided together so you can judge if it's a keeper. If it is, take a deep breath and go neck reset, frets, bridge, nut and saddle and be happy for twenty years.

 

[tuckfoot]

Yes Brick, all things are on the table, including neck reset. Beautiful cosmetic condition. It's a keeper to give to my kids some day. I need a serious assessment from someone who can take care of whatever it needs

 

[chazmo]

Sorry, tuckfoot, I have no idea what's available to you in Monterrey! Definitely consider Tom Jacobs. I don't see why shipping should be that bad from where you are.

 

[Br1ck]

Any good tech should be able to do the work, but some are gun shy regarding Guilds due, I believe, to the wide and thin heel to body surface. Finish damage to deal with if a lot of steam needed. At any rate, if a luthier shows reluctance, I'd just ship it to Fixit from Texas. Like anything, someone who has done dozens of neck sets on Guilds will have confidence.

 

[tuckfoot]

Been a bit of a journey. The cracked bridge was nicely glued and polished in San Antonio, but the tech could not fix the nasty buzzing on low E and A in the first 3 frets.

The great news is that Tom Jacobs agreed to take it on. Tom has it right now, so we'll see soon enough what's what

 

[twocorgis]

Been a bit of a journey. The cracked bridge was nicely glued and polished in San Antonio, but the tech could not fix the nasty buzzing on low E and A in the first 3 frets.

The great news is that Tom Jacobs agreed to take it on. Tom has it right now, so we'll see soon enough what's what

Good luck, but you probably won't need it. Tom is the best, especially with Guilds, and I've yet to see anything that he can't fix. He did a neck reset on my old F212XL, and it came back with the tallest saddle I've ever seen on a 12 string.