1967 D-40... Hoboken or Westerly?

[ClydeTower]

Hi Guys,
Just picked up a 1967 Guild D-40. As I eagerly await its arrival, I've been researching its origins. The serial number is AJ2176, so that would indicate is was made in late 67. The label says it was made in Hoboken, but its come to my attention it could have been made in Westerly as they continued to use the Hoboken labels at the Westerly factory while they transfered production between 1966 and 1970.

Is there a way to definitely know at which factory it was built and would there be a difference in the build? Hoboken's are known to be lite builds were as Westerly's more hefty.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Norrissey]

Wow. That looks like a really nice one. Congrats! (bit jealous)
I'm not an authority but based on what I know your guitar was probably made in Hoboken. According the to the Guild Guitar book the Westerly Factory opened in August '67 and initially only made M-20s and Mark 1 classical guitars (production continued in Hoboken during that time and well into 1968). However, I don't know the exact date when D40 production moved to Westerly. If you're lucky Hans Moust (the Guild Historian who wrote 'The Guild Guitar Book') may see your post and give you a more definitive answer. BTW Westerly continued to make the lighter build acoustics until 1971. It was in 1972 that Guild started making them heavier. I know this for sure because I have two 1971 Guild acoustics and they are light build.

 

[hansmoust]

Hello Clyde,

That particular Guild D-40 was completed in Hoboken, NJ during the year 1967.

It looks like the bridge on your guitar has been off, so it may have been replaced or converted to a 'drop-in' saddle style.

Hope you will like it!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[ClydeTower]

Wow. That looks like a really nice one. Congrats! (bit jealous)
I'm not an authority but based on what I know your guitar was probably made in Hoboken. According the to the Guild Guitar book the Westerly Factory opened in August '67 and initially only made M-20s and Mark 1 classical guitars (production continued in Hoboken during that time and well into 1968). However, I don't know the exact date when D40 production moved to Westerly. If you're lucky Hans Moust (the Guild Historian who wrote 'The Guild Guitar Book') may see your post and give you a more definitive answer. BTW Westerly continued to make the lighter build acoustics until 1971. It was in 1972 that Guild started making them heavier. I know this for sure because I have two 1971 Guild acoustics and they are light build.

Thanks Norrissey! How do you like your '71 D40NT?

 

[ClydeTower]

Hello Clyde,

That particular Guild D-40 was completed in Hoboken, NJ during the year 1967.

It looks like the bridge on your guitar has been off, so it may have been replaced or converted to a 'drop-in' saddle style.

Hope you will like it!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Wow thanks for your input Hans! I was later told that the D40s made in Hoboken did not have the Chesterfield logo on the headstock, that they started doing that at the Westerly factory... glad I now have the definitive answer. Don't get me wrong, it would have been fine had it been built at Westerly. I'll ask the previous owner about the bridge. Thanks again!

 

[Neal]

Is it just my eyes, or does that bridge look just a little bit wide? That would suggest a replacement.

 

[ClydeTower]

Is it just my eyes, or does that bridge look just a little bit wide? That would suggest a replacement.

Could be, waiting for a response from the seller. What I do know is the original owner had it for 50 years before selling it to a collector who had it checked out before buying it. I looked at other pics of D-40s from 1967 and the bridge seems to be the same length, aside from the saddle being a drop-in rather than a cut-through.

 

[Norrissey]

How do you like your '71 D40NT?

It's great but it's a player grade guitar that has had a neck reset and a crack repaired. It also has a very chunky new saddle. It once had a bridge doctor in it that was removed. I really like it, very comfy neck and very resonant with a punchy woody tone. I do kind of lust for a Hoboken one though : )

 

[ClydeTower]

It's great but it's a player grade guitar that has had a neck reset and a crack repaired. It also has a very chunky new saddle. It once had a bridge doctor in it that was removed. I really like it, very comfy neck and very resonant with a punchy woody tone. I do kind of lust for a Hoboken one though : )

That's awesome, glad you like it. I guess the neck reset made the bridge doctor unnecessary? Does yours have a drop-in saddle? When I get my hands on this 67 D-40, I will post back with a more detailed review. I know there are no cracks, no finish issues, just good old honest play ware you would expect. Still waiting on more info about the bridge, but it doesn't worry me, I already factored in the cost of a neck reset and other work if needed. Considering the price I paid ($900), I think its worth it.

 

[Norrissey]

Whoa! Great price! Congrats again! Yeah, my D40 does have a drop in saddle.

 

[donnylang]

The chesterfield was not present until sometime during 1967, then it went away again around 1970-72 (logo was silkscreened for this period though). After that, Chesterfield again until who knows.

Original bridge would be “through-saddle” (long) until around 1969.

Neck is 3-piece until sometime around 1970, then it’s one piece.

Truss rod cover changed around 1971 to the larger plastic style.

Pickguards also changed shapes pretty often during this period. The very early ones have the unusual, more pronounced shape. Then it changes to a bit smaller in 1965, larger around 1967, then a different smaller shape around 1971. After that, I lose track LOL.

Hans can of course correct me where I’m wrong, but that’s what I’ve noticed in owning quite a few Guilds of this period (including several D40s).

 

[ClydeTower]

Hey Donny, thanks so much for sharing your experience. So from the pictures I just received from the seller, the original “through-saddle” was modified to accommodate a drop-in saddle. You can see it was filled in with rosewood on either side. Going to have to ask my luthier's opinion on this. Leave it as is or restore it to its original state.

 

[wileypickett]

Leave it as is or restore it to its original state.

Unless you're a bear on originality, I'd leave it alone. Whoever did this likely had their reasons.

I've seen fixes like this on other guitars with through-saddles that have had their bridges shaved, as yours appears to have been. (One of my Guild 12-strings came to me this way.)

Because through-saddle slots were typically shallower than drop-in saddle slots (one reason why through-saddles were often glued in), shaving this bridge would have reduced the depth of the saddle slot which might have led to the saddle tipping forward or falling out during string changes.

The previous owner may have decided to have the old slot routed deeper because it allowed for the old saddle to be replaced with one that extended deeper into the bridge, and was thus more secure structurally.

Had they routed the through-saddle slot deeper, the slot would have gone into the "wings" of the bridge. Thus the reason for a drop-in saddle instead.

(The slot may also have been rerouted to correct an intonation problem.)

See how deep the saddle slot is next time you change strings. (I'm curious if my guess is right!)

 

[donnylang]

Hey Donny, thanks so much for sharing your experience. So from the pictures I just received from the seller, the original “through-saddle” was modified to accommodate a drop-in saddle. You can see it was filled in with rosewood on either side. Going to have to ask my luthier's opinion on this. Leave it as is or restore it to its original state.

Good to see the bridge is original. Most people would say leave the drop in as is, I doubt there is much difference. However, IME the guitars I've had with the through-saddles were "the good ones" ... no idea if that is related to the sound at all, I'm sure it's subtle if anything.