1956 Aristocrat needs a little TLC

[harmonyman]

Happy monday everyone.
I stumbled across this forum a month or so ago looking for info on a guitar I recently purchased up here in Winnipeg Canada.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25944694@N ... 715730407/

The store was asking $700 and told me that this was a m-75 from the late 60's. I wrote down the serial # and went home, after poking around on the net I figured that it was in fact an Aristocrat from 1956. So I went back and traded a Harmony H-77 and gave them $300.

The guitar has some unfortunate scars. The most obvious issues are the les paul pick ups (mounted in the original p-90 covers) and square hole cut in the back. There are several sand through's in the veneer from an old refinish job and a massive crack up the back. The wood around the toggle is missing and the plastic ring is glued to the top to secure the switch. The binding is pulling away from the body at the waist. Looking inside, I also found a broken brace.

I wanted to post some photos of the guitar and get some advice on what I can do to improve the instrument. until I can afford 1950's p-90s I have ordered a set of new ones. I thought of maybe putting a veneer of mahogany on the back.

I'd be very interested to hear what this community of guild enthusiasts has to say about it.
Dave

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. Alas, my opinions on your guitar would probably not be helpful. (I'll give you a hint - I'm not the player of the D-25 in my sig). Hopefully someone else will be along soon.

 

[Default]

Actually, it's not as bad in some aspects as dkl's aristocrat. The binding shrinking is common with Guilds and Gretschs of that period. One of the members heated his with a hairdryer and that was enough to stretch it back into place. The crack can be spliced or possibly glued and clamped. The brace can be glued. The square cutout is... unfortunate. <shrug>
To my optimistic eye, the biggest problem would be getting a couple of Franz pups, but P90's of your favorite flavor would do.

:mrgreen:

 

[matsickma]

Well many of the main attributes of the Aristocrat are still in place. It looks like they didn't route out the pickup area so that is good. You can try and replace the origional Franz but that is a $400+ item. I would not try and restore the guitar because you would spend more then you could recoup. That said I would set it up and refinish it to my liking. Repairing the back of the guitar is probably not worth the effort. You could use standard pickguard material and cover the hole with a few screws or apply a piece of thin acoustic guitar pickguard material with adhesive backing across it to seal it up. In any case I am sure when your done you will be pleased with the player you have.

M

 

[AlohaJoe]

You could use standard pickguard material and cover the hole with a few screws or apply a piece of thin acoustic guitar pickguard mater across it and seal it up. In any case I am sure when your done you will be pleased with the player you have.

+1 on that. The crack and braces are readily repairable. What a nice vintage guitar though. A worthy project!

 

[Default]

I would not try and restore the guitar because you would spend more than you could recoup. That said I would set it up and refinish it to my liking.

Yeah, there is that. Since I plan on being buried in a piano case with all my gear, I never think about resale. :lol:

 

[john_kidder]

I plan on being buried in a piano case with all my gear

Man, that will be a GRAND piano case to give you all that room. Maybe a couple of Bosendorfers that were accidentally shipped in the same crate?

 

[jp]

Hey Dave,
That's a great project. Have to agree with matsickma and Default above. It's completely worth restoring as a solid player. I've said this here many times before, but a vintage guitar with some battle scars and a few orphan parts is often my ideal guitar. No worries about a nick or chip here or there. Customize and do some guilt-free mods with impunity. As matsickma stated, besides the Franz PUs, all the things that define it as a classic Aristocrat are there. Nice going!

 

[wright1]

Harmonyman, welcome. Go for it. I would love to find projects like that here in the UK. If those are genuine Gibson original mini humbuckers and not modern replacements then they will be worth a few pennies. Gibson cutout P90 covers to fit them so the covers may be original but it looks like the mounting screws are non original. Do you think the natural finish is original? Once you have made the repairs to the back a nice veneer would certainly hide all the scars. Keep us up to date on how it goes.
All the best, Steve.

 

[harpinator]

Dave, certainly a worthy project there. The main problem is that back. Some good suggestions provided on the hole. But I would definitely get the crack fixed since it could affect sound. Should be able to find a replacement bridge easily enough also.

 

[dean]

Hey Dave,

Looks like a great little project you have on your hands. From what I can tell by the pics, just about everything can be fixed to make it a great player. I doubt that it will have much significant vintage value (as opposed to a pristine Aristocrat), but it will still maintain some value just because it's an old Guild. I'm not sure I'd worry about getting the appropriate pickups in it since those old Franz pickups are becoming very scarce and expensive - they would be worth much more than the value of the guitar itself! You might want to check with Pete Biltoft of Vintage Vibe Guitars and see if he could wind you a couple Franz imitations - he's pretty reasonable and makes great pickups.

It looks like the biggest problems are on the back - the crack needs to be addressed first and then the hole. The crack may be so wide that it cannot be successfully pressed back together - or if it can be compressed, you may need to use cleats to help stabilize it. Alternatively, you might have to patch the crack with a thin strip of mahogany that fills the crack - I've had to do this with a few restorations, and it's not too difficult. You'll still want to cleat the crack, though. Once the crack is fixed, the hole can be patched with an appropriate piece of mahogany. You might be able to find a piece that closely matches the grain and color of the rest of the back, or you may even want to respray the entire guitar (maybe sunburst?). At any rate, your Aristocrat may look like it has been repaired, but it will at least reclaim its former structural integrity.

In the end, you will certainly have a great player as well as the satisfaction of having resurrected a 50+ year old Guild! Have fun and good luck!

Dean

 

[harmonyman]

thanks everyone on your responses. I am really enjoying the new p-90s I put in yesterday.

I'll have to tackle the issue of the back now.

Does anyone have any info on what shape pickguard this guitar came with?

There are three screw holes on the top.

Dave

 

[harpinator]

I think the pickguard would be shaped like I have posted at "1968 M75 pickups" in the Archtops/Hollowbodies. Its not original, but was made using a 50's M65 pickguard as a guide.

 

[harmonyman]

I think the pickguard would be shaped like I have posted at "1968 M75 pickups" in the Archtops/Hollowbodies. Its not original, but was made using a 50's M65 pickguard as a guide.

does yours have 3 screw holes also?

 

[Default]

Here is Don's.

Don's gallery

http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm13 ... sh%20work/

 

[harpinator]

No there are two screws as in Default's photo, one above the neck PU and one to the side of the bridge PU.

 

[harmonyman]

No there are two screws as in Default's photo, one above the neck PU and one to the side of the bridge PU.

I wonder why mine has a third

 

[Zachary]

Here is an interesting auction to watch...an old Premier with 2...count 'em 2....old Franz p'ups. Might be worth the price for those alone!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Premier-Sup ... 7C294%3A50

 

[wombat]

Hi, nice guitar. Just wanted to let you know that I was lucky enough to get hold of one of these, probably in even worse condition, a spruce top late '50s. Mine came with '60s Gibson Humbuckers (T-Buckers) which sounded good. I swapped them out for Seymour Duncan Phat Cats (a P-90ish type pickup that was designed to fit into a standard humbucker routing). The Phat Cats were designed by SD especially for the Hamer Newport (a small, spruce top hollowbody). The Aristocrat is without doubt my favourite guitar and I would not consider trying any other pickups with it. In any case, I am lucky enough to own a larger X-350B with Franz pickups and to be honest I find it hard to imagine what Franz pickups would sound like on the Aristocrat. I love the Aristocrat so much that I sought out a Newport as a spare. The Newport sounds great too, but is a touch smoother and mellower and does not have the presence and bite of the Aristocrat (the latter is a bit deeper and more lightly built and has a trapeze tailpiece whereas the Hamer has a stoptail).

Just wanted to let you know that my experience is that Aristocrats and Phat Cats are a match made in heaven. Good luck with your project!

 

[harmonyman]

Here is an interesting auction to watch...an old Premier with 2...count 'em 2....old Franz p'ups. Might be worth the price for those alone!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Premier-Sup ... 7C294%3A50

thanks for the tip. those look like they'd be humbuckers with the line of screws off-center like they are.

just found this auction, seller is also offering a matched pair of 70's p-90's
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Guild-Guita ... 7C294%3A50