12-string Quality

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Hi
I am starting properly, for the first time in my long playing life, to really significantly upgrade my 12-string.
Currently I have an old Yamaha FG - 312, on which I have written many songs. I have 10 thou on top and it is, as advised by the Guide book at the time, have it tuned down a tone. So advice on the best, given those facts would be good. As for playing style on my 12 string - I use my guitar to create moods with dynamic, rhythm and arms.

I appreciate the posting by strang identifying best guitars for tuning down. On that string identified how that heavy strings muddy the sound, so I am thankful not to be using heavier strings, especially as my fingers are developing arthritic contortions, particularly on the 2nd finger of both hands (bent about 3 degrees out of alignment) and 1st (which has swollen on my right hand, being right-handed).

Now I want to really upgrade. Today I have learnt that some Guild tuning pegs aren't good and also that there don't seem to be any really good pickups, none bearing such good fruit as a mic.

So any direction given all these things would be most welcome. God Bless. Rava
 

gjmalcyon

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Welcome! Stick around - nice folks around here.

You will be spoilt for choice with Guild 12-strings, particularly if you are looking for used guitars. Tell us a little more about what you like: Body style (jumbo, dreadnought?), wood (maple, rosewood, mahogany?), budget?
 

geoguy

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Welcome . . .

I'm not sure which "Guild tuning pegs aren't good" that you might be referring to. I've generally found that when I have tuning issues with a guitar, the problem is usually found at the nut slots.

If you want a nice upgrade, but at a used-guitar price, I would suggest an F-412 from Guild's Tacoma or New Hartford factories.

You could then install a pickup system of your choice . . . my experience is limited in that area, but others can make recommendations re: a pickup & DI box.
 
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Welcome! Stick around - nice folks around here.

You will be spoilt for choice with Guild 12-strings, particularly if you are looking for used guitars. Tell us a little more about what you like: Body style (jumbo, dreadnought?), wood (maple, rosewood, mahogany?), budget?
I tried the Guild 2512 CE Jumbo today which was very comfortable. Apparently it is quoted to have a slim C neck with a radius of 14". When I checked this one out? I used a Utube which identified the problem with the tuning pegs (which I think I knew on tuning it down a tone. The same Reviewer identified the pick up prob (which I agreed with).
 

fronobulax

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Welcome.

The 2512 CE Jumbo is part of the Newark Street collection so the tuning peg issues almost certainly would not be present on a vintage instrument or a new instrument made in Oxnard, CA.

there don't seem to be any really good pickups, none bearing such good fruit as a mic.

I am certainly willing to have my memory jogged but I cannot recall anyone ever claiming that a good pickup sounded better than a good mike. Certain pickups may sound better than certain mikes but as your budget expands a mike is the best sounding option. The reasons for using a PU instead of a mike tend to be convenience and practicality rather than the quality of the sound. Wouldn't you rather walk in, strap on your guitar and plug in one cord than fiddle with the mike and stand to get the best sound, least feedback and then remember to stand in just the right place?

Like I said though, my memory is not to be trusted so there may be other opinions and they might even be better informed :)
 

adorshki

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Hi Rava, welcome aboard! Agree with Gjmalcyon's suggestion to tell us whta your ideals (if any) are in terms of body size/tonewoods, that helps narrow it down.
Welcome.

The 2512 CE Jumbo is part of the Newark Street collection so the tuning peg issues almost certainly would not be present on a vintage instrument or a new instrument made in Oxnard, CA.
Like I said though, my memory is not to be trusted so there may be other opinions and they might even be better informed :)
Actually part of the "Westerly Collection". ;) (Newark Streets are electric only, yes?)

For Rava's benefit, named after but not to be confused with Guild's longest-term location, and the guitars built there.

But yes it's come up before, while they're exceptional values for sound quality in their price range, a weak point of the Made In China Westerly Collection guitars are the tuning pegs.
 
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Thanks to you all - now that I may have identified the perfect 12 string for me (???) the F-412, I look on-line for one and, O Dear there's not one for sale. I may have to lower my sightsee!
 

Cougar

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Thanks to you all - now that I may have identified the perfect 12 string for me (???) the F-412, I look on-line for one and, O Dear there's not one for sale. I may have to lower my sightsee!
Well, either that or heighten your patience. ;) If you want to "really significantly upgrade [your] 12-string," then the ultimate would be an F512 or F412 built in New Hartford with a Wave-Length Multi-source pickup, which blends an undersaddle pickup with a small microphone positioned in the soundhole. Alternately you could get an F512 or F512-Maple more recently built in Oxnard, California. Or you might want an older jumbo Guild 12-string, if it's still in good shape, which might be built in Tacoma, WA, or Corona, CA, or Westerly, RI, or even Hoboken, NJ. You can also search for a JF55-12 or JF65-12, which were just F412 and F512 renamed for a few years. Then there's the JF30-12, which is similar to an F412, but with less bling. All are top of the line Guild 12-strings -- all jumbos. Best of luck on your significant upgrade, and welcome to LTG!
 

Rayk

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Hi
I am starting properly, for the first time in my long playing life, to really significantly upgrade my 12-string.
Currently I have an old Yamaha FG - 312, on which I have written many songs. I have 10 thou on top and it is, as advised by the Guide book at the time, have it tuned down a tone. So advice on the best, given those facts would be good. As for playing style on my 12 string - I use my guitar to create moods with dynamic, rhythm and arms.

I appreciate the posting by strang identifying best guitars for tuning down. On that string identified how that heavy strings muddy the sound, so I am thankful not to be using heavier strings, especially as my fingers are developing arthritic contortions, particularly on the 2nd finger of both hands (bent about 3 degrees out of alignment) and 1st (which has swollen on my right hand, being right-handed).

Now I want to really upgrade. Today I have learnt that some Guild tuning pegs aren't good and also that there don't seem to be any really good pickups, none bearing such good fruit as a mic.

So any direction given all these things would be most welcome. God Bless. Rava
Hmmmm not sure in what sense you or Strang is using heavy strings as muddy ?

I play open tunings and light strings do not work well at all for that at least for me .

Cougar and others along with me have 12 string tunes you could listen to that with give you an idea of there sound . I guess there’s pro vids on you tube as well . Lol

I mostly finger pick . The imports are fine sounding but American models definitely have them beat from my experience.

I have a 2013 F212XLCE which is my first Guild 12 ever lol but I had a FG312 many many years ago . Laminated back and sides . I didn’t realize how not so great it sounded until I took up recording . But just my perspective but it was a very tough guitar and was abused plenty . Lol

back to Guild , have not had any tuning issues especially with humidity changes , onc
Hi
I am starting properly, for the first time in my long playing life, to really significantly upgrade my 12-string.
Currently I have an old Yamaha FG - 312, on which I have written many songs. I have 10 thou on top and it is, as advised by the Guide book at the time, have it tuned down a tone. So advice on the best, given those facts would be good. As for playing style on my 12 string - I use my guitar to create moods with dynamic, rhythm and arms.

I appreciate the posting by strang identifying best guitars for tuning down. On that string identified how that heavy strings muddy the sound, so I am thankful not to be using heavier strings, especially as my fingers are developing arthritic contortions, particularly on the 2nd finger of both hands (bent about 3 degrees out of alignment) and 1st (which has swollen on my right hand, being right-handed).

Now I want to really upgrade. Today I have learnt that some Guild tuning pegs aren't good and also that there don't seem to be any really good pickups, none bearing such good fruit as a mic.

So any direction given all these things would be most welcome. God Bless. Rava
Hi
I am starting properly, for the first time in my long playing life, to really significantly upgrade my 12-string.
Currently I have an old Yamaha FG - 312, on which I have written many songs. I have 10 thou on top and it is, as advised by the Guide book at the time, have it tuned down a tone. So advice on the best, given those facts would be good. As for playing style on my 12 string - I use my guitar to create moods with dynamic, rhythm and arms.

I appreciate the posting by strang identifying best guitars for tuning down. On that string identified how that heavy strings muddy the sound, so I am thankful not to be using heavier strings, especially as my fingers are developing arthritic contortions, particularly on the 2nd finger of both hands (bent about 3 degrees out of alignment) and 1st (which has swollen on my right hand, being right-handed).

Now I want to really upgrade. Today I have learnt that some Guild tuning pegs aren't good and also that there don't seem to be any really good pickups, none bearing such good fruit as a mic.

So any direction given all these things would be most welcome. God Bless. Rava
I have westerly 120 OM no tuning peg issues .
Few asked questions not answered from I think but these guys will help you .
My 12 is a 2013 F212XLCE it’s my first Guild 12 but I did have FG 312 for many years and it was a tough built guitar.
there laminated back and sides . Honestly I didn’t know how not so great it sounded once I started recording and starting my journey into all solid guitars .

The Guild imports sound good but in my experience the USA models are the better.

no disrespect but some of us non pros have a few 12 string tunes posted like Cougar and me I’m sorry I can’t remember who else , I known Cougar for a long time :) so easy to remember.lmao 😂
some in members music.



I don’t understand the heavy gauge string issues though . I play mostly open tunings and in that sense light gauge strings don’t cut it . Lol

lastly I’ll take any opportunity to post a tune at for a hit ! Hahahahaha

kidding on the hit part . Anyway here’s two .
With the F212.



Good luck on your search and to see an update 😊
 

Tom O

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I don't know much about the new Guilds. My GAD D212 sounds great. You can get these older used GAD 12s for around $650. Mine was about $850 new in 2008. Here is a clip:
 

beecee

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Tom O...you should post a video of the DD!!!
 

Br1ck

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I'll hazard a guess that, given your location, your choices will be few and far between. The good news is that you won't go wrong with any 12 string Guild, with the caveat that always goes with any guitar concerning action, neck angle, etc. There is a sleeper of a Guild 12 string though, and that for me is an F 112. A friend with hand issues plays one and it sounds really good. My favorite of them all. Smaller body makes it less guitar to wrap around.

Pickups are another problem. The aforementioned F 112 had an under saddle transducer he never could get balanced. I wholeheartedly recommend the Dazzo sound board transducer, which went into the guitar a year or so ago. It does not sound like a mic, but does sound very good. I have them in six guitars, including a Pono 12 string.

People like to complain about the older open gear on a plate tuners. Yes, they aren't as smooth as a big clunky, and heavy set, but the lightness makes up for that. Generally, every tuner holds a tune just fine if there are no nut issues. Apparently there are no bad eras for Guild 12 strings.
 
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Tony Burns

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I'm kinda new here -so ill throw in my 2 cents - I own an old Yamaha from 1971
( yes 50 years old ) kinda has seen better days - and i really wanted a F512 , but with things being what they are
and basically my business was closed from the current situation - I decided to give one of the westerly F1512 a chance,
I already own a 1971 D-55 and a 1978 D-25CH - it took a while to get here - but it did and its a very nice 12 string -
I'm not going to stretch the truth and tell you its as good a s F512 -its not but for the price its a very good instrument-
all solid wood - nice tone ( even thou its from China its impressive - a bit nicer than the F2512 version - which is decent for its price as well )
Yes when times get better Ill look and find a well cared for used F412 -but probably keep this one as well -
By the way I bought a premium case for the F1512 - its a kick a-- case !
 

Tony Burns

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I'm kinda new here ( don't go online very much )-so ill throw in my 2 cents - I own an old Yamaha from 1971
( yes 50 years old ) kinda has seen better days - and i really wanted a F512 , but with things being what they are
and basically my business was closed from the current situation - I decided to give one of the westerly F1512 a chance,
I already own a 1971 D-55 and a 1978 D-25CH - it took a while to get here - but it did and its a very nice 12 string -
I'm not going to stretch the truth and tell you its as good a s F512 -its not but for the price its a very good instrument-
all solid wood - nice tone ( even thou its from China its impressive - a bit nicer than the F2512 version - which is decent for its price as well )
Yes when times get better Ill look and find a well cared for used F412 -but probably keep this one as well -
By the way I bought a premium case for the F1512 - its a kick a-- case !
 
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