12 String Compensated Saddle

[12stringer]

Hi folks
I am going to take a run at filing a compensated saddle for my 12 string. The guitar is at the shop right now having the saddle slot widened (and slightly deepened to clean it up a bit) to accept a thicker saddle. A new bone saddle is going to be roughed in by the tech for height and radius. I just need to do the time consuming part of filing the intonation points. I will take pictures as I do the work. All advice is welcome.
Thanks kindly, :wink:
Randy

 

[adorshki]

Hi folks
I am going to take a run at filing a compensated saddle for my 12 string. The guitar is at the shop right now having the saddle slot widened (and slightly deepened to clean it up a bit) to accept a thicker saddle. A new bone saddle is going to be roughed in by the tech for height and radius. I just need to do the time consuming part of filing the intonation points. I will take pictures as I do the work. All advice is welcome.
Thanks kindly, :wink:
Randy

I'm wildly speculating again but since recently reading about using 2 unwounds or wound/unwuond combo at the G course, it occurs to me that the intonation offset may be different between them, you might want to look into that.

 

[12stringer]

Thanks Adorshki
I am planning on using the traditional unwound/wound combo for the G course, so I will base the saddle intonation on that combination....however I have heard that using 2 wounds for the A course sounds better...I have noticed that an unwound A jumps out at you when using a pickup.
Anybody know what guage unwound would work for the A course?

 

[chazmo]

Hi folks
I am going to take a run at filing a compensated saddle for my 12 string. The guitar is at the shop right now having the saddle slot widened (and slightly deepened to clean it up a bit) to accept a thicker saddle. A new bone saddle is going to be roughed in by the tech for height and radius. I just need to do the time consuming part of filing the intonation points. I will take pictures as I do the work. All advice is welcome.
Thanks kindly, :wink:
Randy

Good luck, Randy. When my luthier replaced the saddle on my old Taylor 12-string, he did a compensated one and it's really nice. The guitar was not playable before the work, however, so I couldn't do any A/B comparison. Just for reference, the modern Guild saddles are all compensated (I think). On the F-512, they started doing that in Tacoma, I believe -- my 2006 is one of the relatively early ones with a compensated saddle.

 

[12stringer]

Good luck, Randy. When my luthier replaced the saddle on my old Taylor 12-string, he did a compensated one and it's really nice. The guitar was not playable before the work, however, so I couldn't do any A/B comparison. Just for reference, the modern Guild saddles are all compensated (I think). On the F-512, they started doing that in Tacoma, I believe -- my 2006 is one of the relatively early ones with a compensated saddle.

Hi Chaz
Any chance you could post a picture of a compensated saddle ....I am interested more in the profile so I can see how the break angle of the saddle is shaped. Thanks,
Randy

 

[chazmo]

Randy, there are two pictures of the saddle on my F-212XL here: http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc47 ... 2XL%20STD/

Some pix also of my F-512 here: http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc47 ... ld%20F512/

If you need closer/better shots, give me a shout.

 

[12stringer]

Randy, there are two pictures of the saddle on my F-212XL here: http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc47 ... 2XL%20STD/

Some pix also of my F-512 here: http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc47 ... ld%20F512/

If you need closer/better shots, give me a shout.

Hi Chaz
I just copied your pictures into this thread for reference.
Thanks for your help.
I am getting a good idea of how to shape the saddle from these shots.

F212xl

F512

 

[devellis]

A very useful tip I've seen is to put a short length of a high e-string on the edge of the saddle, along its long axis, as a temporary bearing point under the string whose intonation you're setting. You can move that bearing point fore or aft as needed (after loosening the tension on the string being intonated) until you get it right where intonation is optimal. then you can mark its location under the string. Do that individually for all strings, and you'll find the optimal intonation points for each. The thickness of the e string (.010) is small enough not to make an appreciable difference (it only raises the action at the 12th fret by .005'). Of course, this process should start with the top edge of the string at the desired height under each string. This procedure is just for finding the ideal fore/aft location.

 

[12stringer]

Hi Bob
Thanks for the tip....I will use your method for finding the intonation points on the saddle.
I believe that filing away from the intonation point at 45 degree angle towards the bridge pins and a steeper angle towards the soundhole with a flat ridge on top should give the right profile.
Any other suggestions? I still have a couple of days before I will try this.

 

[Graham]

You can do it Randy!

 

[12stringer]

You can do it Randy!

Thanks Graham! :wink:

 

[Graham]

You can do it Randy!

Thanks Graham! :wink:

We have to get together and play our 12's!

 

[Ross]

Hi Bob
Thanks for the tip....I will use your method for finding the intonation points on the saddle.
I believe that filing away from the intonation point at 45 degree angle towards the bridge pins and a steeper angle towards the soundhole with a flat ridge on top should give the right profile.
Any other suggestions? I still have a couple of days before I will try this.

Sounds like a plan, Randy. Best wishes with the project, and please post some photos of the completed saddle!

 

[12stringer]

Hi Graham
Yes we will have to definitely get together for some 12stringin....how is the new (old) F112? Got some pictures?

Ross, thanks for the well wishes...I will post some pictures

 

[chazmo]

I should mention that I recall seeing (I think!) a tool in the Stewart-MacDonald catalog for building compensated saddles. If I recall, it looked something like an electric-guitar, screw-adjustable thing that ultimately would mark the points on the saddle for you. I never actually saw one in use though. Bob's idea sounds easiest though.

Keep us posted, Randy.

 

[12stringer]

I should mention that I recall seeing (I think!) a tool in the Stewart-MacDonald catalog for building compensated saddles. If I recall, it looked something like an electric-guitar, screw-adjustable thing that ultimately would mark the points on the saddle for you. I never actually saw one in use though. Bob's idea sounds easiest though.

Keep us posted, Randy.

Thanks Chaz...I will have a look as I have a Stew mac catalogue....but at this point I am liking Bob's idea. :wink:

 

[12stringer]

Ok...I got a call from Scott Sheperd at the 12th fret saying my baby was ready just as I was leaving work so I made the trip downtown and picked her up....he did an awesome job cleaning up the saddle slot and roughing in a new saddle

I really was suprised that the saddle hardly needed any compensation at all...just had to file the top a bit and round the front and back....intonation was right on....hardly had to compensate the B strings at all....I did a bit of nut slot deepening which helped with cowboy chords intonation.
I tried to take a picture to show how little I had to do

8)

Tomorrow I will be installing the pick up and adding a strap pin. A new set of Newtone Master Class PB light strings (.10 to .48) that I picked up at the 12th fret and I will be ready to go!
Time for bed....it's been a long but wonderful day!

 

[12stringer]

Tweaking mostly done....still have to go buy a strap pin....but pickup is installed, saddle tweaked some more to make every string ring true and clear. Here's some more pictures

 

[Graham]

Great stuff Randy!!!

 

[12stringer]

Great stuff Randy!!!

Thanks Graham.....Hey, lets see some pictures of your F112!
Ok, enough fooling around, I better get to the guitar store before they close.