New Member NBD - 66 Starfire 1
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Minnesota Flats
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Minnesota Flats
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My two favorite poster designers of that era are:
Victor Moscoso
Rick Griffin
Victor Moscoso
Rick Griffin
RVBASS
Member
“We call that position on a Starfire I the "sweet spot"”
Thanks much for the info, fronobulax.
When I was modifying my Newark Street SF1 I noticed that the “sweet spot” pickup placement on the NS looked slightly closer towards the neck than the 60’s SF1 sweet spot (which looked slightly more towards the bridge). I based this on their position relative to the neck end of the F hole. Photos below (NS first, then a ‘66). With the two pickup configuration the difference is more noticeable.
My ‘67 SF1 has the bisonic in the neck position and sounds great, but I tend to favor the neck pickup with any configuration.
Thanks much for the info, fronobulax.
When I was modifying my Newark Street SF1 I noticed that the “sweet spot” pickup placement on the NS looked slightly closer towards the neck than the 60’s SF1 sweet spot (which looked slightly more towards the bridge). I based this on their position relative to the neck end of the F hole. Photos below (NS first, then a ‘66). With the two pickup configuration the difference is more noticeable.
My ‘67 SF1 has the bisonic in the neck position and sounds great, but I tend to favor the neck pickup with any configuration.
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RVBASS
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“The Gibson Grabber bass, from the '70's, actually had a PU that could be moved to various places along the string so the player, not the builder, decided where it belonged.”
The first Alembic bass was made by Rick Turner for Jack Casady, and had a sliding pickup assembly.
The first Alembic bass was made by Rick Turner for Jack Casady, and had a sliding pickup assembly.
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RVBASS
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mellowgerman
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There's my old '66! (on the right) Great bass.
RVBASS
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Yes, I found it on an old post during an internet search for a good photo of a ‘66 Starfire…nice bass!
fronobulax
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BA-357. Pictured above and noted as mellow's when I also snagged the pic.
I think I heard of the Grabber well before I heard of Alembic, and hence the citation of it for the sliding PU. If it is any consolation, about all I remember from the only Airplane concert I went to was Grace Slick. If I could get a message to my younger self it would have been to pay attention to Jack and not Grace.
The Newark Street was "inspired" by a '66 Starfire so the pickup could have moved but no one I recall has made the claim before. I will note that the straight and harp bridges give different impressions. My recollection is that @mellowgerman did the work that convinced me that the SF II bridge position and sweet spot positions were not the same. It involved a lot of photo manipulation and numerous images. I suppose if we defined which measurements defined the position folks might be able to get out measurement tools. But we need to define things. in case we need to assume the body dimensions didn't change or the f-holes shift or....
I think I heard of the Grabber well before I heard of Alembic, and hence the citation of it for the sliding PU. If it is any consolation, about all I remember from the only Airplane concert I went to was Grace Slick. If I could get a message to my younger self it would have been to pay attention to Jack and not Grace.
The Newark Street was "inspired" by a '66 Starfire so the pickup could have moved but no one I recall has made the claim before. I will note that the straight and harp bridges give different impressions. My recollection is that @mellowgerman did the work that convinced me that the SF II bridge position and sweet spot positions were not the same. It involved a lot of photo manipulation and numerous images. I suppose if we defined which measurements defined the position folks might be able to get out measurement tools. But we need to define things. in case we need to assume the body dimensions didn't change or the f-holes shift or....
RVBASS
Member
Yes, all good points. I just thought it was interesting since I was thinking about all of that when I was modifying my bass.
Hi guys, here's my '66 SF1 bass. The serial number is BA 544.
As you can see, the top of the bridge tailpiece is flat across, the saddles are made of plastic and, finally, the pickup is in the 'sweet spot',
To me, 'sweet spot' means that the Bisonic pickup, working with a 30" scale-length fingerboard, is located precisely where Fender mounts a P-Bass pickup to a 34" scale-length finger-board instrument.
Mine was covered in white Krylon spray when I bought it. The neck had been cracked at some point, so my Repair Dude pulled the Krylon off and re-glued the back of the head-stock (glue is visible in pic 1993.jpg.).
Here's some advice. Don't sell it, 'cause they're usually great instruments. I owned a very clean mid-late '60s SF2 bass for about 30 minutes and traded it off because the baritone switch (aka 'suck switch'), ruined the clean sounds that the earlier instruments had. So proceed slowly with your axe, because they are truly great sounding!!
Hey, I have a question for my SF bass friends. Look at photo # 9 in this thread. Remind me why there is a small transformer in the pickup cavity! I kinda remember it, but that was a while ago....
As you can see, the top of the bridge tailpiece is flat across, the saddles are made of plastic and, finally, the pickup is in the 'sweet spot',
To me, 'sweet spot' means that the Bisonic pickup, working with a 30" scale-length fingerboard, is located precisely where Fender mounts a P-Bass pickup to a 34" scale-length finger-board instrument.
Mine was covered in white Krylon spray when I bought it. The neck had been cracked at some point, so my Repair Dude pulled the Krylon off and re-glued the back of the head-stock (glue is visible in pic 1993.jpg.).
Here's some advice. Don't sell it, 'cause they're usually great instruments. I owned a very clean mid-late '60s SF2 bass for about 30 minutes and traded it off because the baritone switch (aka 'suck switch'), ruined the clean sounds that the earlier instruments had. So proceed slowly with your axe, because they are truly great sounding!!
Hey, I have a question for my SF bass friends. Look at photo # 9 in this thread. Remind me why there is a small transformer in the pickup cavity! I kinda remember it, but that was a while ago....
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I always like to remind my deadhead friends the gd opened for the Airplane.One of my favs:
fronobulax
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The transformer is part of the "suck switch" which appeared in 1967 on Bisonic equipped Starfires (not that there was any other factory pickup). Some people live with it, some people disconnect it and some people rip it out. Sounds like you made it someone else's problem.
Since I have often pontificated on tone and how various factors contribute I should note that BA-544 is the third bass in the trifecta where I was able to compare vintage Bisonics in two positions and old and new Bisonics in the same position.. It is why I would consider a '66 sweet spot a slight tonal upgrade to my '67. It is also why I believe the age of the Bisonic has more of an influence than the position. I didn't have all three in the same room or use the same amp, but the player was a constant and the memories were strong enough to seem reliable.
I started using "sweet spot" in reference to Stafire basses when I realized that the pickups in a bridge position SF I and the bridge pickup on a SF II were not in the same place. So I needed words to distinguish them. it also seems to be a more elegant way to differentiate between flavors of Starfire I's.
Minnesota Flats
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The transformer enables your bass to change itself from a musical instrument into a giant, weaponized, alien robot.
There's an entire movie franchise that deals with this...
There's an entire movie franchise that deals with this...
thornev
Junior Member
A JeffAir tribute band ! Far out !! Rock on ! I'd love to play that stuff as I played along with the records for years. I love Baxter's.
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"Baxters" was their pinnacle, IMHO.
thornev
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They really extended themselves on Baxter's. I saw them perform several times (first time in '68) and they were never well-rehearsed or just didn't want to be. "A sound looking for a band" (Casady's quote I believe) really does fit. Balin was always just screaming in concert. I always felt like they were trying to figure out what each of their roles were in the band. But at times that looseness was so powerful especially with Casady's sonic bass propelling the band. Pointed Little Head is a great example of how tight they could be when they worked as a unit. I read Grace's and Jorma's autobiographies. Full of good laughs. Typical band stuff. All those early Frisco bands were so full of musical creativity and willingness always to improvise as policy. Just great stuff.
fronobulax
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Volunteers cemented my relationship with the band. I remember when it came out and listening to and analyzing "the new album" was what my crowd did. Blows Against the Empire, while not strictly an Airplane album also gets played a lot these days. I realize my reaction to the Airplane was colored by a teenaged crush on Grace Slick. Half a century later when I return to the catalog and not just the emotional touchstones, the driving force is to listen to or figure out what Jack Casady did and how.
thornev
Junior Member
All we teenage boys had a crush on Grace. She was drop-dead gorgeous. I used to secretly to myself wish her Happy Birthday every Oct 30th. I gave up on Airplane starting with Bark. It was a combination of discovering the incredible musical interplay between Lesh, Garcia and Weir and just not particularly liking any of the new songs. I'd come home early after my 12th grade year classes, smoke a little and listen to Dark Star. That summer my friend and I challenged each other to see who could get up and turn over the record to play St. Stephen or did we fall asleep during Dark Star. I still love BATE though. And of course Crosby's first with all those Frisco players. Sorry to take the thread off track, All. I'm new here and it's fun sharing thoughts about the great music and the great instruments they played. Thorne