Questions from a new 1970 S100 Owner

Groundwire

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OK, you have touched on a number of different aspects regarding the Hagstrom. Some things you wrote don't add up or make sense. And some of what you wrote is not entirely clear. this one is also a lefty, so ill try to stay on track with it myself

first, there are 2 main screws on that unit. the one large thumbwheel/set screw that holds the arm in place, and the smaller screw that controls the spring rate(or whatever) of the tremolo tailpiece. It sounds like you have removed the large thumb wheel set screw successfully. or maybe not?

"it turns, but doesn’t come out of the collar" a lot of things turn on that tailpiece. are u talking about the tremolo arm? or the large thumbwheel set screw??

presuming you are talking about the arm, and the large set screw has been removed and is not stuck in anything, just set that set crew off to the side. Is the point of the screw in decent shape? any major wear or signs of incorrect installation/use?

the "permanent divot in the arm" is there by design. there is only one way it is to be positioned. if it is "too low to be useful" than it is either: in there wrong/upside donw, is the incorrect arm, or a second divot has been made in the arm post-factory, in the wrong spot. something there is not right. one of my questions is that if you can't get the arm out of the collar, how can you see the divot(s) in the arm?

unless u mean the trem tailpiece itself is too low, which is controlled by that smaller screw. but lets pause there for a minute.

I want to make sure I am not misunderstanding what is stuck. in looking at your photo, the arm is way down by the knobs. that is not stuck, is it? the arm should be moveable, and if it is, move it up just under the high E string/in the pick guard area. The Hagstrom tremar is not like a Fender or Bigsby. it is very suddle, and just takes a touch to use the effect. It is not sticking way out like a Fender Strat. and the way that Hagstrom unit is designed (just look at it!) the trem will not work right (or at all) down where u have it in the photos. look at where a Bigsby arm is, the Hagstrom should look like that.

here is a lefty Hagstrom, see what I mean?

Once you move the arm out of the way, next step is see if the trem is locked with that smaller screw. play a chord and pull on the back of the tailpiece slightly. does the pitch change? or is it locked? Ultimately that smaller screw will need to be adjusted, while you are tuning, to set the tremolo "spring rate" to how you want it/how the guitar wants its.

but before you do that, if the the trem arm is stuck in its cylinder, I would heat that up with a hair dryer and get that arm out. just set it aside with the set screw. and show us some photos.

Also on mine the values of the pickups have not been measured, but they do seem quite hot. the neck pickup for sure, is a sea of heavy cream fattness. both pickups are full spectrum, wide open like the sky.

Thanks for all the detail. A lot to unpack here, so I will try to be clear and concise.

First, I am talking only about the set screw that holds the arm in place. The small screw that controls spring tension is set, floating fine, and is no issue, so for the rest of this conversation, I am only referring to the set screw for the trem arm.

Yes, I am able to remove the large thumbwheel screw. The screw looks fine. When I do this, the trem arm twists in the sleeve, but it does not come out. I will heat it as you recommend and see if that allows it to slip out.

That said, when I look into the screw hole with a flashlight, the divot in the trem arm, where the set screw rests, seems to look ground up a bit, so perhaps that is why the arm is not sitting at the right height.

The trem arm assembly turns freely, I can easily move it into place for use, so that is no issue. For the record, I am quite familiar with trem assemblies, having used Strat Trems, Bigsbys, Jazzmaster Trems, etc. So don't worry, I know how to set and float a bridge, which way the arm should be facing, how to manipulate the trem, etc.

The tailpiece is floating just fine and is of no issue.

When I say the arm is too low, what I mean is that it is sitting too low in relation to the body of the guitar to allow for wide movement of the term arm. I am a Strat player, and I like to hold the trem arm in my palm, and pick with my fingers, using the trem arm to wobble the notes. with this trem arm, that is not possible as it sits too low over the strings to allow this. If I remove the set screw, and rotate the arm, the curve of the arm shifts and the arm floats higher above the strings, but of course, it will not stay positioned that way.

The only way I can see to raise the arm in relation to the body, would be to tighten the trem spring, and make the plate sit closer to flush with the body, but the floating nature of it makes it feel much smoother (just like on a Strat, I never deck the trem).

Does this all make sense? I can also send pics if helpful, but hopefully I described this clearly.

So, right now, I am looking to:
Remove the arm from the sleeve to inspect it. You have given a suggestion how to do this.
Adjust the arm so it sits higher off the body of the guitar. Once I remove the arm, I can determine if the divot has become oversized or mangled in some way.

Thanks!
 

Groundwire

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Here is a photo of how close the arm is to the body on my Jetstar, which is set up perfectly. sorry my S-100 is not all together for photos atm, but it's the same exact thing. about 1.5 inches of distance, but again, the arm lives up by the stings (it wouldn't work correctly, or at all, down by the knobs...due to the geometry of the tailpiece).



I also should have mentioned it makes a big difference which strings you use. try D'addario 10's, definitely!

Thanks for this. Yes, mine also sits right about 1.5" off the body of the guitar, so it seems there's no issue with it, it simply not to my preference...
 

mavuser

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Thanks for all the detail. A lot to unpack here, so I will try to be clear and concise.

First, I am talking only about the set screw that holds the arm in place. The small screw that controls spring tension is set, floating fine, and is no issue, so for the rest of this conversation, I am only referring to the set screw for the trem arm.

Yes, I am able to remove the large thumbwheel screw. The screw looks fine. When I do this, the trem arm twists in the sleeve, but it does not come out. I will heat it as you recommend and see if that allows it to slip out.

That said, when I look into the screw hole with a flashlight, the divot in the trem arm, where the set screw rests, seems to look ground up a bit, so perhaps that is why the arm is not sitting at the right height.

The trem arm assembly turns freely, I can easily move it into place for use, so that is no issue. For the record, I am quite familiar with trem assemblies, having used Strat Trems, Bigsbys, Jazzmaster Trems, etc. So don't worry, I know how to set and float a bridge, which way the arm should be facing, how to manipulate the trem, etc.

The tailpiece is floating just fine and is of no issue.

When I say the arm is too low, what I mean is that it is sitting too low in relation to the body of the guitar to allow for wide movement of the term arm. I am a Strat player, and I like to hold the trem arm in my palm, and pick with my fingers, using the trem arm to wobble the notes. with this trem arm, that is not possible as it sits too low over the strings to allow this. If I remove the set screw, and rotate the arm, the curve of the arm shifts and the arm floats higher above the strings, but of course, it will not stay positioned that way.

The only way I can see to raise the arm in relation to the body, would be to tighten the trem spring, and make the plate sit closer to flush with the body, but the floating nature of it makes it feel much smoother (just like on a Strat, I never deck the trem).

Does this all make sense? I can also send pics if helpful, but hopefully I described this clearly.

So, right now, I am looking to:
Remove the arm from the sleeve to inspect it. You have given a suggestion how to do this.
Adjust the arm so it sits higher off the body of the guitar. Once I remove the arm, I can determine if the divot has become oversized or mangled in some way.

Thanks!

thanks, that's all a lot clearer. let us know when the arm is free, and lets see a pic of the arm itself, as well as the possibly damaged divot, once it is.

once u have this all rectified...i leave my arm in there with the screw tight and never take it apart, for that exact reason of the screw and the hole staying as true as possible. I found the Mono vertigo case/bag to be perfect for storage, in that regard. in a hard case i'd just let the top of the case close on the bar, and have the tension released while stored.
 

Groundwire

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Here is a photo of how close the arm is to the body on my Jetstar, which is set up perfectly. sorry my S-100 is not all together for photos atm, but it's the same exact thing. about 1.5 inches of distance, but again, the arm lives up by the stings (it wouldn't work correctly, or at all, down by the knobs...due to the geometry of the tailpiece).

Okay, so, using the hair dryer method and a lot of wiggling I was able to remove the arm from the sleeve. The sleeve was just full of dust and the chrome of the arm had some putting making for some friction that made the arm difficult to remove.
After cleaning the sleeve with a pipe cleaner, sanding down the putting on the arm with a 3m pad, and a couple drops of WD40, the arm now slides into the sleeve fine.
It still sits lower to the body than I’d like, but I think I just need to find new creative ways to use it. It’s not gonna get used the way I use other trems.
Here’s a couple pics of the way the bridge is set up, and the float of the plate. This all looks good, right?
 

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Groundwire

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thanks, that's all a lot clearer. let us know when the arm is free, and lets see a pic of the arm itself, as well as the possibly damaged divot, once it is.

once u have this all rectified...i leave my arm in there with the screw tight and never take it apart, for that exact reason of the screw and the hole staying as true as possible. I found the Mono vertigo case/bag to be perfect for storage, in that regard. in a hard case i'd just let the top of the case close on the bar, and have the tension released while stored.

Thanks. See my other reply below. Once removed, the divot is fine. It was just full of dust, along with the rest of the sleeve. It has a bit of chew from the screw, but minor really.
It’s set back up now and while I may adjust the spring tension, I think everything is in order.
 

mavuser

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Thanks for all the detail. A lot to unpack here, so I will try to be clear and concise.

First, I am talking only about the set screw that holds the arm in place. The small screw that controls spring tension is set, floating fine, and is no issue, so for the rest of this conversation, I am only referring to the set screw for the trem arm.

Yes, I am able to remove the large thumbwheel screw. The screw looks fine. When I do this, the trem arm twists in the sleeve, but it does not come out. I will heat it as you recommend and see if that allows it to slip out.

That said, when I look into the screw hole with a flashlight, the divot in the trem arm, where the set screw rests, seems to look ground up a bit, so perhaps that is why the arm is not sitting at the right height.

The trem arm assembly turns freely, I can easily move it into place for use, so that is no issue. For the record, I am quite familiar with trem assemblies, having used Strat Trems, Bigsbys, Jazzmaster Trems, etc. So don't worry, I know how to set and float a bridge, which way the arm should be facing, how to manipulate the trem, etc.

The tailpiece is floating just fine and is of no issu
When I say the arm is too low, what I mean is that it is sitting too low in relation to the body of the guitar to allow for wide movement of the term arm. I am a Strat player, and I like to hold the trem arm in my palm, and pick with my fingers, using the trem arm to wobble the notes. with this trem arm, that is not possible as it sits too low over the strings to allow this. If I remove the set screw, and rotate the arm, the curve of the arm shifts and the arm floats higher above the strings, but of course, it will not stay positioned that way.
It still sits lower to the body than I’d like, but I think I just need to find new creative ways to use it. It’s not gonna get used the way I use other trems

****that* and u just saved me a very long post!***

Here’s a couple pics of the way the bridge is set up, and the float of the plate. This all looks good, right?

looks good!!
 

Groundwire

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looks good!!

Thanks and really appreciate all the help. Now I just need to figure out what to do about possibly adding a phase switch because I really want that sound.
I’m taking it in for a refret this weekend. I bribed my tech to turn it around in 2 days because I can’t be without my new guitar for 2 weeks... turns out IPA is a powerful motivator... 😂
 

kakerlak

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Does OP have a righty tremolo unit and a lefty arm? The pic of the left-handed Hagstrom has the pivot point on the opposite side. It's been forever since I've had one of these in hand... Is that just a flat steel plate that can be flipped either direction of you fully unscrew everything mounted to it?

Won't affect the overall height, but might be nice to not have the arm running diagonally across the bridge -- you lefties have enough of that with upside-down strats, already.
 

Groundwire

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Does OP have a righty tremolo unit and a lefty arm? The pic of the left-handed Hagstrom has the pivot point on the opposite side. It's been forever since I've had one of these in hand... Is that just a flat steel plate that can be flipped either direction of you fully unscrew everything mounted to it?

Won't affect the overall height, but might be nice to not have the arm running diagonally across the bridge -- you lefties have enough of that with upside-down strats, already.
Wow, that is an excellent point and I didn’t even notice it. That would make the travel across the strings a bit more intuitive since it wouldn’t be coming over from the opposite side. Also, it wouldn’t bump against the tension screw when bringing it into place.
I’ll check to see it it can be reversed. If not, sourcing a lefty Hagstrom bridge plate is going to be a challenge.
 

mavuser

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Does OP have a righty tremolo unit and a lefty arm? The pic of the left-handed Hagstrom has the pivot point on the opposite side. It's been forever since I've had one of these in hand... Is that just a flat steel plate that can be flipped either direction of you fully unscrew everything mounted to it?

Won't affect the overall height, but might be nice to not have the arm running diagonally across the bridge -- you lefties have enough of that with upside-down strats, already.

that is a great catch! I did not notice that either. was confused enough cringing at its lefty-ness in the first place.

I don't the think tailpiece can be reversed on any level. the smaller screw/spring is drilled into the body of the guitar. Also, I don't think it would really
make a functional difference. I would leave all of that alone.
the arm for a righty and lefty I would think are the same thing.
 

Groundwire

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Wow, that is an excellent point and I didn’t even notice it. That would make the travel across the strings a bit more intuitive since it wouldn’t be coming over from the opposite side. Also, it wouldn’t bump against the tension screw when bringing it into place.
I’ll check to see it it can be reversed. If not, sourcing a lefty Hagstrom bridge plate is going to be a challenge.
So, this was an excellent idea and I’m glad I checked, but unfortunately it does not work.
The plate does look symmetrical, and it slides into the flange whic holds it in place.
Unfortunately, you could not flip the plate, because the spring tension screw is held in place by a toothed washer that sits into two dimples on the top of the plate. These are not present on the bottom of the plate. Also, removing the swivel portion into which the arm sits would be challenging.
Sadly my trem arm will remain on a right plate until a lefty Hagstrom trem assembly comes for sale on Reverb... sigh.
 

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kakerlak

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Wow, that is an excellent point and I didn’t even notice it. That would make the travel across the strings a bit more intuitive since it wouldn’t be coming over from the opposite side. Also, it wouldn’t bump against the tension screw when bringing it into place.
I’ll check to see it it can be reversed. If not, sourcing a lefty Hagstrom bridge plate is going to be a challenge.
I just went poking around image results and it looks to me like the spring is slightly off-center and that there's also a clearance hole in the base plate for the arm mounting mechanism. It actually does look like the moving plate itself could be flipped around, but you'd need a new base plate (or be brave enough to try to bend the curled fulcrum cups all the way around to the backside) and, even then, you'd probably need to cheat the route for the spring a little to get it to line up on the other side. Might just be a matter of Guild not making enough of these to have ordered left-handed tremars. Too bad!

I wonder if you could find anybody to bend you up a custom arm (or rebend the original one).
 

Groundwire

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that is a great catch! I did not notice that either. was confused enough cringing at its lefty-ness in the first place.

I don't the think tailpiece can be reversed on any level. the smaller screw/spring is drilled into the body of the guitar. Also, I don't think it would really
make a functional difference. I would leave all of that alone.
the arm for a righty and lefty I would think are the same thing.

See my reply below. The top portion of the plate is removable, but not reversible.
The only functional different is that the arm would originate on the treble side, instead of the bass side. This would allow the arm to sit in a more natural place, and alleviate my complaint about the arm hovering right above the strings. Oh well. It works fine for now but I will be saving the Reverb Search “lefty Hagstrom trem”...
 

Groundwire

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I just went poking around image results and it looks to me like the spring is slightly off-center and that there's also a clearance hole in the base plate for the arm mounting mechanism. It actually does look like the moving plate itself could be flipped around, but you'd need a new base plate (or be brave enough to try to bend the curled fulcrum cups all the way around to the backside) and, even then, you'd probably need to cheat the route for the spring a little to get it to line up on the other side. Might just be a matter of Guild not making enough of these to have ordered left-handed tremars. Too bad!

I wonder if you could find anybody to bend you up a custom arm (or rebend the original one).
Thanks. You are correct. The arm itself is totally fine, and is curved the correct way, it’s just that it originates on the bass string side of the body, instead of the treble side. So it hovers above the strings, instead of above the pickguard, like a Bigsby would. That said, I bet I could have a longer arm fabricated, with a bend so it would sit in the correct spot, like a Jazzmaster arm does. Hmmm.
 

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mavuser

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See my reply below. The top portion of the plate is removable, but not reversible.
The only functional different is that the arm would originate on the treble side, instead of the bass side. This would allow the arm to sit in a more natural place, and alleviate my complaint about the arm hovering right above the strings. Oh well. It works fine for now but I will be saving the Reverb Search “lefty Hagstrom trem”...
i see what u mean about going across the strings. I think if u just play the guitar for a while, that trem arm will naturally find a home to hover over. see how it feels in a couple months. i am still in the camp of leaving that existing Hagstrom unit on there. the swap to a lefty would not be a drop in replacement, the way I am seeing it. if u did that, it would make a difference, but my guess is not as much as you are expecting. in the end i would try to warm up to it the way it is, as much as possible.
 

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i see what u mean about going across the strings. I think if u just play the guitar for a while, that trem arm will naturally find a home to hover over. see how it feels in a couple months. i am still in the camp of leaving that existing Hagstrom unit on there. the swap to a lefty would not be a drop in replacement, the way I am seeing it. if u did that, it would make a difference, but my guess is not as much as you are expecting. in the end i would try to warm up to it the way it is, as much as possible.
Yup this is a great point. I may look at getting a longer arm fabricated, but for now I’m just going to play the hell out of it and enjoy.
 

mavuser

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you obviously know also u can just yank on the soft tail and not even have the arm on the guitar at all, ala Mikey Houser (tele Deluxe Plus) and Norah Jones (1965 Fender Mustang), among others i'm sure. those 2 have really mastered it (RIP Mikey). I play that way a lot on these, even if the arm is on there. sometimes I tap them both (tail and arm), if I am really feeling it
 
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