Help needed properly explaining to people why the guild laminate archback is not a bad thing

I am guessing there is already a great thread on this topic, but i talk to a lot of people, new to guild, who are wanting to try the brand out, and when they hear "laminate" they think overseas, cheap, and not a top quality tonewood. I don't need any convincing guild archbacks are outstanding, but I want to be educated on how to explain this to newcomers. Thanks for the help guys!

I would counter that with the fact that most classic Guild models are all-solid. It's just a design decision for some models to create a "punchier" sound I believe (others I'm sure will explain better).

I would explain it by stating that the archbacks are “one louder,” like a volume knob that goes to eleven.

The lamination process can be used to cut cost and save money on expensive tone woods, but in this case it's used to create a shape for strength which allows not only to focus the sound coming out of the soundhole, but also to eliminate the back bracing, due to the strength of the shape, which is clean and unrestrictive for sound reproduction. In this case with Guild, it's actually an additional step with more labor and effort to create an effect and resonance from the sound. How's that??

And it's been good enough for Guild to cart that enormous press all over the country during their moves.

awagner said:

I would explain it by stating that the archbacks are “one louder,” like a volume knob that goes to eleven.

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Yes, that certainly seems to be the case, and it's because....

davismanLV said:

...allows not only to focus the sound coming out of the soundhole, but also to eliminate the back bracing....

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Other guitars talk about scalloped bracing, like that's really going to allow for more vibration, but how can that compete with no bracing at all? And the arched back is like a concave mirror, like Tom says, focusing more vibes back out the soundhole. That's how I see it anyway, and it sure seems to work. And of course, Guild doesn't just use "plywood," but a high quality laminate. It's a win-win-win-win-win!

If they are unable to understand that laminated guitars are not necessarily cheap, ask them if they know what an original Selmer Maccaferri is made with, being worth north of $40K? Or how much a carbon fiber guitar is worth, new? Or that Ovation and Adamas guitars were US made, expensive, and sounded pretty good to most people, and every one of them had a arched, fibreglass or plastic, back.

The thing I don’t understand about players is how a laminated ES-330/335/345/355 isn’t looked down upon yet laminated/ply bodies on literally anything else is considered bad. Laminated acoustics isn’t a bad thing really as with acoustics you really have to take it as a case by case basis. For example my all laminate Yamaha FG-150 sounds good, my friend’s laminated Epiphone acoustic on the other hand is gutless. I think the reason why Guild chose to do a laminated back was on arched back guitars which using a laminated piece of wood made it easier to press the back into an arched shape. The alternative is to carve it out which as you can imagine takes forever. I owned 65 guitars in my lifetime and the guitar I love to use the most these days is a laminated bodied Guyatone electric. One could argue we are talking about acoustics here where the materials used to make the guitar has a large impact on the sound I would make the case that for the past 10 years up until very recently I used my all laminated Yamaha FG-150 pretty much exclusively until unfortunately it’s rising action put me in a position where I had to retire it as no techs in my area would dare tackle a neck reset on it and other FG-150’s were in the same situation as mine if not worse. I didn’t care it was laminated, I walked into that pawnshop for something that sounded and played GOOD. All my less than stellar sounding acoustics I’ve owned collect dust and shortly sold thereafter. Perhaps we are reminded of the cheesy plywood starter junk from the 70’s and 80’s that weighed a metric ton and sounded and looked dreadful. Not all laminated guitars were made from the cheapest laminated possible like those aforementioned cheap starters.

Why do you want to do that? Archback Guilds are one of the great bargains in used and vintage guitars. Let’s not change that!

Of course, scalloped bracing is on the top, not the back.

Just tell them next time you find an archback Guild you're going to pass on, call me!

I love the Guild arch back guitars.. I've played quite a few laminate guitars from various manufacturers, some flat back and some arched back. Some even had laminate tops and/or sides. There was nothing "cheap" about many of them and many actually sounded superb.

One was a Martin CEO series guitar (can't remember the model #). It did have solid top but laminated back and sides of Braz. RW and it was an excellent guitar for sure. Of course, I sold it and still can't remember why.

Banjos have a rounded back, and so did a lot of early "tater bug" mandos for better or worse. It's just a way to project sound. That's all they really need to know.

Some of the most iconic guitars are chock full of laminates, like the Gibson ES series, no doubt Starfires?

Another case in point, early Japan Red Label Yamaha guitars, like my first acoustic back in '76, the lowly but then ubiquitous FG-75. Laminate everything including the top, and they sound very good, in fact, some of those lam top guitars sound wonderful to the point of having a hard time putting it down.

best selling Guild acoustic model of all time.

I find the prejudice against laminates comes from ignorance and I have found asking why someone doesn't like them usually gives a hook to educate and perhaps change their mind. As an example, laminates are generally associated with cheap, low quality furniture. If someone tries to apply that thinking to guitars there are several reasons why they shouldn't including weight reduction and the ability to shape the wood for its acoustic properties. If they don't like the appearance then point out that they can't actually see the striations in the guitar and so on.

so, the all hog solid top, lamainate hog b/s dread i just got from Richard sounds bigger and better than the Br. the D35 is still my fave and my main dread, mostly due to the spruce top. and the all solid woods do help.

For the same reason Yairi back and side laminates are excellent guitars that hold up over time (albeit not arched) : better resistance to humidity changes - I've heard Yairi used a lot of laminate - without cheap filler - due to the high humidity in Japanese mountains were built.

macandcheese said:

For the same reason Yairi back and side laminates are excellent guitars that hold up over time (albeit not arched) : better resistance to humidity changes - I've heard Yairi used a lot of laminate - without cheap filler - due to the high humidity in Japanese mountains were built.

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My stepdaughter has a MIJ Alvarez Yairi dread (that she never plays). It’s from around 1985. I play it every once in a while. The thing sings.

What about those all-laminate Gibson J160E guitars used by an old '60s band on many of their records (as acoustics), can't remember the name .. B-E-A ... not the Beau Brummels ... I'm sure it will come to me ... I think they sold a few records ...

donnylang said:

What about those all-laminate Gibson J160E guitars used by an old '60s band on many of their records (as acoustics), can't remember the name .. B-E-A ... not the Beau Brummels ... I'm sure it will come to me ... I think they sold a few records ...

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There have been two versions of Gibson’s J-160e. The ones with a very thick laminated spruce top are typically pretty weak acoustically, as their primary intent is to utilize that sweet P-90 pickup. The other version has a solid spruce top, and is quite similar in nature to a standard J-45.

Oh & let’s see, that ‘60s band you’re trying to recall.... the Beach Boys? No, that’s not the one. Hmm.....

bobouz said:

There have been two versions of Gibson’s J-160e. The ones with a very thick laminated spruce top are typically pretty weak acoustically, as their primary intent is to utilize that sweet P-90 pickup. The other version has a solid spruce top, and is quite similar in nature to a standard J-45.

Oh & let’s see, that ‘60s band you’re trying to recall.... the Beach Boys? No, that’s not the one. Hmm.....

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... oh you mean these Beach Boys?:



... pretty sure that other "B-E-A" group used the all-laminate Gibsons as acoustics to write songs & on their records though!