This should be interesting.

killdeer43 · Mar 29, 2016

chazmo said:
walrus loves the phosphor bronze,
we all know the pros and cons,
wood is all about the nickel,
but we all know the man is fickle,
chazmo knows this silk and steel,
which truly has little appeal,
round core square core, who can say?
we need another string thread now... today!

LTP....Let's Talk Poetry! :rugby:

Joe

fronobulax · Mar 29, 2016

Another string thread?
What is there that's new to say?
Use the search function!

Neal · Mar 29, 2016

Didn't mean to get things all stringy!

All I said was that a big, bold, beautiful sitka/mahogany dread like that SCGC was built to play with Mediums. I doubt Lights are going to maximize what the guitar offers.

txbumper57 · Mar 29, 2016

Here is a link to the Santa Cruz String page on their Website. It appears they make their own strings for their guitars now and are not offered in Gauge but in Tension. It says that Medium Tension is recommended for their Dread Models.

http://www.santacruzguitar.com/scgc-strings/

This excerpt is directly from the Santa Cruz Website referring to Medium strings in their Q&A FAQ section. Here is the link to the page as well. It is about halfway down the page.

http://www.santacruzguitar.com/faq/

Q: How do I ensure/measure for proper neck relief when going from mediums to lights strings and back?
A: Medium gauge strings are no problem for your Santa Cruz with the caveat that the mediums extra tension may move the top and neck slightly thereby raising your action. Clockwise adjustment on the truss rod should bring it back to what you had with the lights. If you achieve the proper neck relief (see below for specs) and still find the action high this can be remedied by lowering the saddle. When changing from medium to light gauge strings you would compensate for the reduced tension by turning the truss rod counter clockwise and/or raising the saddle height with a replacement or, in a pinch, shim it up a bit it to avoid string/fret buzz. These remedies presuppose that the neck to body angle is within spec. If this is not the case it will need to be corrected by the maker or an experienced tech.
Then again things may be fine without any adjustment so skip all this and go play guitar.

Westerly Wood · Mar 29, 2016

Neal said:
Didn't mean to get things all stringy!

All I said was that a big, bold, beautiful sitka/mahogany dread like that SCGC was built to play with Mediums. I doubt Lights are going to maximize what the guitar offers.

I just so happen to have a set of EJ17s lying around. Hmmmm

txbumper57 · Mar 29, 2016

fronobulax said:
Another string thread?
What is there that's new to say?
Use the search function!

I would say the "New" part of this is that it is for a Santa Cruz Built Guitar and not a Guild. All Manufacturer's specs are different. I am sure that the community here was just trying to help out a long time member, contributor, and friend (Westerly Wood) with suggestions and information on his wonderful new acquisition. By no means do I think anyone here meant to be Repetitious about anything. Best of Luck to you Wood with your Beautiful New Guitar!

TX

walrus · Mar 29, 2016

LAAST - Let's Argue About String Threads

walrus

davismanLV · Mar 29, 2016

LTT? Let's Talk Tension? (In more ways than ONE!!) :encouragement:

p.s. - Chazmo, I, for one, truly enjoyed your playful verse!! Brought a smile to my face.

Westerly Wood · Mar 29, 2016

txbumper57 said:
I would say the "New" part of this is that it is for a Santa Cruz Built Guitar and not a Guild. All Manufacturer's specs are different. I am sure that the community here was just trying to help out a long time member, contributor, and friend (Westerly Wood) with suggestions and information on his wonderful new acquisition. By no means do I think anyone here meant to be Repetitious about anything. Best of Luck to you Wood with your Beautiful New Guitar!

TX

Thanks Tx. So EJ17s would more than fit the bill. I bought a set as Glen swears by them on his DV guild. Assumed he had his Guild strung with them for the Tiny desk performance. Sounded great. It's really about my finger pads. Lights are easier to play, but I will give the EJ17s a try too as the DPWM plays easier than the ole BR.

adorshki · Mar 29, 2016

txbumper57 said:
Here is a link to the Santa Cruz String page on their Website. It appears they make their own strings for their guitars now and are not offered in Gauge but in Tension. It says that Medium Tension is recommended for their Dread Models.
http://www.santacruzguitar.com/scgc-strings/

Now that was interesting.
First thing that came to mind was Guild's "balanced tension" sets from a couple of years back and we know those were actually D'Addarios.
I'm pretty sure SCGC isn't actually in the string-making business and that they're actually contracting with somebody to make 'em under their label. (Huge overhead investment in string manufacturing machines and raw materials)
I'd be willing to bet a buck it's D'Addario, they've got the necessary equipment and flexibility to handle it, and obviously have done so before. Maybe to a special specs provided by SCGC (the Siminoff connection) and not available to anybody else.
I couldn't find a date for that page to get a handle on whether of not Woods' guitar was likely to have been shipped with 'em but at least we can be pretty sure EJ-17's won't "hurt" it.

Westerly Wood · Mar 29, 2016

adorshki said:
Now that was interesting.
First thing that came to mind was Guild's "balanced tension" sets from a couple of years back and we know those were actually D'Addarios.
I'm pretty sure SCGC isn't actually in the string-making business and that they're actually contracting with somebody to make 'em under their label. (Huge overhead investment in string manufacturing machines and raw materials)
I'd be willing to bet a buck it's D'Addario, they've got the necessary equipment and flexibility to handle it, and obviously have done so before. Maybe to a special specs provided by SCGC (the Siminoff connection) and not available to anybody else.
I couldn't find a date for that page to get a handle on whether of not Woods' guitar was likely to have been shipped with 'em but at least we can be pretty sure EJ-17's won't "hurt" it.

Thanks Al. I think I should start out with those first. I mean if guitar mfgs are contracting D'Addario, why not just go with the source? I just hope I really dig the nickle bronze, but their brightness is better suited to the BR.

I sort of wish all threads morphed into string threads.

txbumper57 · Mar 29, 2016

Westerly Wood said:
Thanks Tx. So EJ17s would more than fit the bill. I bought a set as Glen swears by them on his DV guild. Assumed he had his Guild strung with them for the Tiny desk performance. Sounded great. It's really about my finger pads. Lights are easier to play, but I will give the EJ17s a try too as the DPWM plays easier than the ole BR.

I really like the EJ17's as well. They bring out the perfect amount "Sparkle" and "Clarity" without being too bright. They also have a very well balanced tone on most of my guitars. My favorites to have them on are my Orpheum Jumbo and 12 Fret Dread as both of those are Hog Guitars. The other would be my F47 Brazilian that Fleming built. If I put EXP's on those three guitars they can get a little muddy in overall tone. Monels or Nickel make them too bright and lose the depth of tone. The EJ17's are the perfect in the middle for them. Great Fingerpicked and still respond well strummed with a pick. In my opinion they have the best balance between warmth, Depth, and Clarity of any string I have tried on those three guitars. Honestly, I'll bet you could use Kite string and that Santa Cruz would sound good! LOL! Have Fun!

TX

adorshki · Mar 29, 2016

Westerly Wood said:
Thanks Al. I think I should start out with those first. I mean if guitar mfgs are contracting D'Addario, why not just go with the source? I just hope I really dig the nickle bronze, but their brightness is better suited to the BR.
I sort of wish all threads morphed into string threads.

Bear in mind it's purely educated speculation on my part, and it never would have occurred to me If TX hadn't posted that link.
If you check that link, it explains how they achieve a pre-selected tension by varying the core-to-winding diameter ratios even while maintaining a predetermined gauge.
They also didn't specify their alloys.
So technically it could be anybody making the strings to SCGC's specs and we don't actually know what those specs are.
If the EJ-17's don't ring the bell like what it came with, it's nice to know you can get the SCGC strings, which was comes back to Chaz's original advice: it'd be nice to know what it came with in case nothing else works as well.
That playability thing you mentioned might well be a factor of the calculated tensions, that's what Guild's "balanced tension" sets were supposed to accomplish, and Chris Cozad gave 'em a thumbs up for that when he tested a set.

Westerly Wood · Mar 29, 2016

hey, i can always take it down a half step if I have concerns, but if SC states mid tension is for their dreads, i guess it is just tough to assume their Mid tension is equal to medium gauge strings....got to be pretty close etc. i will call Rainbow friday and see what they strung them with.

adorshki · Mar 29, 2016

Westerly Wood said:
hey, i can always take it down a half step if I have concerns, but if SC states mid tension is for their dreads, i guess it is just tough to assume their Mid tension is equal to medium gauge strings....got to be pretty close etc. i will call Rainbow friday and see what they strung them with.

If that DPW's less than a couple of years old it's within the window to have shipped with the SCGC/Straight Up Strings. (And assuming Rainbow didn't re-string it for some reason)
In the interests of accuracy and trying to confirm or refute my D'Addario hypothesis I did some more digging into the "Siminoff" reference on SCGC's site, and some very interesting background came out.
The guy founded a company "Straight Up Strings" and apparently his research was well-received over on Mandolin Cafe a couple of years ago already:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...t-Means-and-How-It-Became-Important&p=1294558
So he started off in Banjo & Mandolin parts and sold off that business to concentrate on strings.
Apparently he's' got a LOT of experience in the subject:
"Roger Siminoff has been building and designing musical instruments for more than 50 years and has authored 11 books and more than 500 articles on musical instrument construction, design, and acoustics. Roger has been awarded seven U.S. Patents, and was the founding editor of both Pickin’ and FRETS magazines. Roger’s experience in strings comes from his work as a consultant for both Gibson’s and Fender’s string divisions where he developed unique wrap-wire tensioning devices for the string winding process and established criteria for corewire tensioning during the winding process. During his tenure at Gibson, he authored Gibson’s The Authoritative Guide To Musical Strings, was the engineer behind Gibson’s “Equa” string program, and was the creator of Gibson’s “Grabbers” strings. Today, Roger provides ongoing technical support for Straight Up Strings."

That's from here:
http://siminoff.net/cms/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/SUS_guitar_whitepaper.pdf
There is a TON of good stuff in there for us "construction theory" freaks.
And finally, Straight Up's specs:
http://siminoff.net/cms/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/SUS_info_sheet_guitar_FINAL.pdf
Since D'Addario publishes their set tensions on their website, you can compare the relative set tensions.
SO, it's possible Straight Up Strings owns a manufacturing facility but I couldn't find an explicit statement to that effect.
In my opinion it's no foul if they prefer to imply they make their own but actually have somebody make 'em to their specs, which is the important thing.
If anybody could do it reliably and pass through the economy of scale cost advantage I still think D'A'd be the best candidate but now I think there's a greater possibility somebody else could be doing it, IF anybody else is making 'em, due to Siminoff's previous connections to Fender and Gibson.

Bill Ashton · Mar 29, 2016

Did somebody mention STRINGZ? :crazy::crazy:

Why, I thought you would never ask...

First off, congrats on that Santa Cruz, fine fine piece. May you get many years of enjoyment from her.

The esteemed brother above spoke of the former Guild "Balanced Tension" strings. I first heard of them from Doyle Dykes when he was doing a Guild road show locally. Sadly, not sure they ever came out while he was with them, but I got the sense he had something to do with them. And that does make some sense as he played in so many altered tunings, and the Guild product, at least as "Mediums" go, was very nearly the same thing as D'Addario's EJ24's which are a DADGAD set.

http://www.daddario.com/DADProductD...name=EJ24_Phosphor_Bronze__True_Medium__13_56

With the exception of that pesky G-string...the Guild's are a .023 where the D'Addarios are a .024.

I have tried said Balanced Tension strings on my Collings, and they just do not suit her. Bill Collings says to use D'Addario EJ17's and I'll be damned if I don't keep coming back to those. I would suspect that Mr. Hoover has similar strong feelings about what should be on his guitars, and I am sure an easy email or phone call would get you that information.

Be glad to send you a set of those Balanced Tensions, in either "Medium" or "Light" should you wish to experiment...but I guess I would ask why do you feel the need to change the strings so soon...if she is sounding magical, don't go brushing away the fairey-dust just yet...when its time to change strings, she'll let you know :wink:

adorshki · Mar 29, 2016

Bill Ashton said:
I would suspect that Mr. Hoover has similar strong feelings about what should be on his guitars, and I am sure an easy email or phone call would get you that information.

Bill I think you might have missed that TXBumper posted a link to SCGC's website which shows they have their own SCGC branded strings, defined by "tension" instead of gauge.
It's what kicked off my speculations on who might actually be making those strings.

Bill Ashton said:
...With the exception of that pesky G-string...the Guild's are a .023 where the D'Addarios are a .024.

Reminds me of how I'm always on about how Guild's original L350's used an .025 G and EJ-16's use an .024, so I always buy the single .025 to use in the set.
Those links I posted have some fascinating (for geeks like me) stuff about how string torque gets distributed across a fixed bridge and that a bridge can be "designed for" a given set of strings.
Probably what Mr. Collings did with the EJ-17's in mind.

Westerly Wood · Mar 29, 2016

Bill Ashton said:
Did somebody mention STRINGZ? :crazy::crazy:

Why, I thought you would never ask...

First off, congrats on that Santa Cruz, fine fine piece. May you get many years of enjoyment from her.

The esteemed brother above spoke of the former Guild "Balanced Tension" strings. I first heard of them from Doyle Dykes when he was doing a Guild road show locally. Sadly, not sure they ever came out while he was with them, but I got the sense he had something to do with them. And that does make some sense as he played in so many altered tunings, and the Guild product, at least as "Mediums" go, was very nearly the same thing as D'Addario's EJ24's which are a DADGAD set.

http://www.daddario.com/DADProductD...name=EJ24_Phosphor_Bronze__True_Medium__13_56

With the exception of that pesky G-string...the Guild's are a .023 where the D'Addarios are a .024.

I have tried said Balanced Tension strings on my Collings, and they just do not suit her. Bill Collings says to use D'Addario EJ17's and I'll be damned if I don't keep coming back to those. I would suspect that Mr. Hoover has similar strong feelings about what should be on his guitars, and I am sure an easy email or phone call would get you that information.

Be glad to send you a set of those Balanced Tensions, in either "Medium" or "Light" should you wish to experiment...but I guess I would ask why do you feel the need to change the strings so soon...if she is sounding magical, don't go brushing away the fairey-dust just yet...when its time to change strings, she'll let you know :wink:

Found out they set it up with mediums, called the shop. I thought I been playing her with lights, the playability. Hilarious. So EJ17s it is and I will hold off on changing for a while. Bill is right, hardly anyone played the guitar since the setup but me, so it's like it was just waiting there.

The NBs will go on the BR. One day. The hotel I am staying at has free beer. Darndest thing.

fronobulax · Mar 30, 2016

So much for trying to start a poetry slam at LTG :-(

fronobulax · Mar 30, 2016

Westerly Wood said:
I mean if guitar mfgs are contracting D'Addario, why not just go with the source?

I don't know if this is true in the specific case of D'Addario but most of the cases where company X makes something that is sold by and branded for company Y, company X is contractually obligated not to sell an identical product to the general public or anyone else. Depending upon contracts and ethics company X may be willing and able to sell you a product that they can sell that is as close as possible to the branded product but they usually can't sell you the exact same thing. (That said, sometimes the differences are cosmetic, not functional, but sometimes there is a difference that is significant).

This should be interesting.

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