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Thread: Me and Guild not off to a good start!!

  1. #31
    I deleted all of my post and comments and apologized and re stated my comments hopefully less provoking. Sorry about how I started this post.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by fronobulax View Post
    Well, I'm not moderating yet.

    Two things. First, and I'd like someone else who was there to back me up on this, but I recall a discussion on wood at LMG II. During the discussion the Guild folks noted that Adirondack Spruce is becoming harder and harder to obtain in the quantity and quality needed for guitar tops. Thus they were moving to Stika Spruce as a replacement. If this is true it strongly suggests that in five years there will be very few, if any guitars, made by anyone with Adi tops. Furthermore those that are made with Adi tops will be made in low volumes bu luthiers and companies that stocked up and hoarded Adi spruce. So if you think the difference between Adi and Stika is important and noticeable, take a cue from Brazilian rosewood and seek out Adi tops wherever they be now because they won't be available in a few years.

    Related, at LMG III there was a discussion on wood grading and the Guild folks said there was no objective external standard for grading wood. It is quite possible that Guild would grade a piece of wood as AA and martin would grade it as AAA. They told several stories of suppliers who offered supplier graded AAA wood that was not good enough for guitar tops. So if the catalog spec is AAA Spruce what that means is Guild graded it as AAA and it was darn good wood.

    Speaking of catalog specs it is often a deliberate practice to be vague on some specs that are not considered significant. Thus the catalog description could be AAA Spruce and in 2011 they used Adi and in 2013 they used Stika. So if Guild did not specify the type of spruce then they were signaling that they did not consider it of significance and they were trying to protect themselves from being forced to source a particular type regardless of market conditions. Bottom line here is that if the difference between Adi and Stika or Carpathian matters to the customer then it is the customer's responsibility to confirm what will be on the guitar they buy. If you order expecting Adi but no one actually claimed it would be Adi then the misunderstanding is all the customers.

    Long winded, but I said two points.

    Central to what started this is that kbob2 talked to someone and got what turned out to be bad information. What is missing is exactly who that someone was. If it was the dealer, Sweetwater, then Sweetwater is to blame unless they have some way to deflect it on their supplier, Guild. Otherwise the error was kbob's in his selection of who to talk to. That said, it occurs to me that the real issue here is that kbob might have been used to calling the Martin factory, finding what was in stock and expected delivery time and then placing an order through the dealer of his choice. In which case calling "Phoenix" and then placing an order at Sweetwater would make sense excpet that Guild does not operate the way Martin does.

    All just speculation on my part but sometimes I get this urge to understand so that I can fix. See "It's Not About the Nail".

    I have deleted all of my prior post and apologized for how I started it off and it was provoking without intent. I also said on the top issue I read spec's on couple of models and the as an example the D-50 said solid red spruce. some other spec's on other guitars said Adirondack spruce specifically. I read the spec's on the D-55 and all it said was AAA spruce. so having the tops described several different ways I "assumed mine was red spruce also and being a little more expensive allowed also the assumption of adirondack". All this being said Now I know not to assume. Next time I will ask my dealer about wood composites before I assume. But Guilds top descriptions are very varied. Martin is pretty specific on stating Adirondack or Sitka spruce or englemann. But guild said red spruce, Adirondack, AAA spruce(to me meaning"what kind of spruce") could it have been a little misleading?? No matter I know now and again sorry for the opening comments and sounding harsh....

  3. #33
    kbob2, et al,

    First off, I don't think anybody's trying to be a troll. I think if I waited five weeks for a guitar that was supposed to be shipped in a few days, I'd cancel the order, too.

    Secondly, kbob2, I have some info for you about Adirondack and Sitka spruces. Hope you enjoy it!

    Adirondack Spruce trees and Sitka Spruce trees grow in different places in the North American Continent and at different elevations. Adirondack Spruce is often found at higher elevations and is a slower-growing tree than Sitka.

    Here is some info about the two varieties of spruce from Wikipedia articles:

    Flat top Gibson and Martin 'tops' before WW II were made from Adirondack Spruce. People got used to the sound of Adirondack instruments and a lot of the iconic sounds of the '30's and '40's recordings come from lightly-braced, Adirondack-topped instruments.

    In the guitar manufacturing world, Sitka came into use when companies such as Gibson made wartime products like wing spars for gliders. My guess is that wood-product manufacturers needed a steady source of good, knot-free hardwood to accomplish their wartime goals and Sitka was simply a 'better get' than Adirondack.

    After the War, Sitka was both easy to source and a known product. Adirondack, by comparison, came from depleted forest areas where the big trees were all gone. Accordingly, Sitka became the wood of preference for all of the wood-product manufacturers in the good old USA, including Martin and Gibson at some point.

    At the same time as the top-woods were changing at Martin and Gibson, the products were being redesigned at the request of the Bean Counters. Lightly braced guitars and lifetime warranties do not mix, apparently. So, interior bracing became progressively heavier between the late '30's and the '60's. Bridge plates (the plate on the interior side of the top underneath the bridge) also got to be bigger and bigger from both companies, all in the effort to cut operating costs.

    The trouble was, the new guitars sounded bad in comparison to the older guitars. Players noticed and commented on it. Finally, the first-wave of boutique builders went to Martin and Gibson (beginning in the late '60's) and started asking questions. The answers were, 'we changed the top-wood and the bracing'. Builders found a way to get some Adirondack Spruce or some Brazilian Rosewood and Players noticed the audible difference in sound.

    What Players didn't notice was the return to lighter bracing inside the instruments, or the elevated build-quality from the New Age of builders. It all makes a difference, folks.

    So now we are two-three generations into the Rebirth of good sounding guitars. There are great factory managers like Ren Ferguson, who know how to do it all! We are living in a Golden Age of Instruments, right now. A New Hartford-made Guild D55 is going to be a wonderful axe, because experienced builders are making the right decisions when the instrument gets built.

    Does that mean that Sitka and Adirondack sound the same? No, but they each have a purpose and a place. As well, boutique builders will tell you that a good piece of Sitka will sound better than an inferior piece of Adirondack (and vice versa). If you call up a small builder and say 'what's your best top wood for a dreadnaught?' and he says 'I've got some great Sitka and have built 10 kick-*** dreads this year with it, but one of my two Adirondack customers was a little disappointed', what are you going to do??

    In general, I think Sitka sounds better for strumming and light fingerpicking and Adirondack sound better when you are playing either hard Bluegrass or wrenching the guts out of a guitar. I have great love for both top-woods. I owned an '06 Tacoma-made D55 for six months or so and it was a great guitar, Sitka top and all. In fact, it was a wonderfully great guitar!!

    But again, I'm not an expert. Even if I was an expert, what sounds good to me might not sound good to another person.

    So kbob2, best of luck finding a Guild that you like. I bet it will be a good one! Harry aka gilded
    Quote Originally Posted by fronobulax View Post

    And I like Harry's approach.
    '66 Starfire I SB bass, '67 Mark IV pear wood, '75 Mark 4 P padauk, '00 Bluesbird black,
    '66 Thunderbird amp, '68 Thunder 1 RVT amp, '69-70 Thunderstar Combo, '70 Superstar Combo

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by kbob2 View Post
    But Guilds top descriptions are very varied. Martin is pretty specific on stating Adirondack or Sitka spruce or englemann….
    My interest in guitars started with Guild and was fueled by the knowledge on this forum. My interest slowly switched to small bodied Martins. When it did I joined UMGF and started looking at specs. I was overwhelmed by the amount of detailed specs that were available on the Martin website and its retailers. Unfortunately the details that Martin provides is unique to Martin. I am obsessed with saddle string spacing, but find it difficult to find that info for Guilds, Gibsons, Taylors and several small builders. For Martin, it is printed right on the box. So I learned to place my trust in brand specific guitar forums like LTG to help with all the nitty gritty details that are not listed on the brand website. Ask us, we know and can provide many more details than Guild and FMIC are willing to provide. We won't bite.

    kbob, I know this has been a very frustrating process with Sweetwater and a few goobers over at Fender, but remember why you began searching for the D55. You posted a fantastic youtube video over on UMGF of a guy playing his fancy blinged out D55 and made it sound better than it looks. If it sounds that great, then it is worth having no matter what the specs say or what wood is on the top. Guild has made that guitar for roughly 60 years, so they know a thing or two about what makes that guitar special.

    If Sweetwater burned you, then cancel. Call Bing or Rocky Street Sounds. They are bound to have one in stock at a great price and can ship instantly.

  5. #35
    Super Moderator Default's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Philly, or thereabouts
    Plus One on BingK! I bought two NH Guild guitars through him and. i would not hesitate to buy one through him again.
    "Steve, you are a man of many goats."~ capnjuan

    "Alternatively, you could just go the ultra-relic route with it. Basically go for a look that says the amp was on fire and they put it out using belt sanders."
    (amps - I need a "99" & "50")

  6. #36

    While Bing is my first choice, Rocky Street Sounds has their inventory online with several D55s both in burst and natural. Here is one:

    Guitar Resurrection, the Guild dealer in Austin Texas, has a burst D55: I would be more than happy to play it for you and give a full report. Many people can vouch for this store, including me.

  7. #37
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Sillycon Valley CA
    Quote Originally Posted by gilded View Post
    Here is some info about the two varieties of spruce from Wikipedia articles:
    Harry that was a magnificent post, thank you for the time spent researching and composing.
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Harry that was a magnificent post, thank you for the time spent researching and composing.
    Truly, a fantastic post. Thank you.
    Hoboken: '64 F20, '64 F30
    Westerly: '77 F112, '90 D25, '92 Songbird, '00 Blues 90
    Corona: '03 D50
    Tacoma: '07 F30, '07 F40
    New Hartford: '12 D50 Standard, '12 F47R, '12 G312; '13 Orpheum Slope-Shoulder Mahogany,
    '13 Orpheum Slope Shoulder Rosewood prototype
    China: GAD-F20

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by kbob2 View Post
    Ok thankfully I was able to go through and delete all of my post and I am glad this is possible on this forum. My original post without intent was provoking but not intended to provoke negativity however after I read my post I displayed what appeared anger and frustration also it appears I wanted a bunch of guys to jump on the wagon and chastise Guild and or my dealer. However it was/is a disappointment and very circumstantial and things do happen not to receive my guitar when stated and yet to find it pushed further down the road. . I guess I could have ask guys on here first about guild experiences and it might have been proper and possibly could still have opened a can of worms and maybe not. None the less I retracted my post and re posted with these comments and say I am sorry and yes my post was provoking and negative. I could have simply posted my experience with the promises and let down as a experience and left it with some hope there would be another opportunity. None the less If I choose to revisit the Guild D-55 I just may when the dealer places one in stock and He is 200 miles away from me and the only dealer that close but yet go play the guitar first.. . Also he offers 0% interest for 24 mos. That was key. Considering all the things I mentioned from availability to playability with the AAA spruce top it might be better to head up and play the guitar before I buy it. This opening new experience for me and Guild guitar has not been a bad one but a simply let down on the delivery miss Que!
    I apologize for my comments that didn't mean to rile and get negative come backs. I enjoy this group and also will continue to research Guild models and features before I commit and this way avoid top or composite confusion. So I am sorry and the door has been opened for a new day and learning opportunity without penalty or a financial disaster. So accept my apology! Thanks guys !
    definately got off to a rocky start but the edited post deserves to be seen.

    and hey man, things can be stressful sometimes, but guitars shouldnt be. Guilds are not mass produced and there could easily be a run on supply for a popular model. especially with the internet these days. Dealers will tell you what they know about ETA and instrument specifics, but sometimes they are optimistic or just reading info from something else.

    good luck to u, sounds like u have other guitars. def check out a Guild when u can. cheers

  10. #40
    Senior Member killdeer43's Avatar
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    Aug 2008
    Northwest Washington on the Salish Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Harry that was a magnificent post, thank you for the time spent researching and composing.

    "Just give me one extra season, so I can figure out the other four."

    '75 D35
    '76 F112-6
    '94 D4-12

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