Will Guild Make a USA F-30 Again?

D30Man

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I really have no right to complain about Guild-Oxnard or CMG. I have not bought one of their guitars. I am not helping their brand. I realize I like the Westerly, RI acoustics, for various reasons, but that does not help them today :).

I think it's great they felt the brand was worth purchasing and keep going. Cheers!
Agreed WW. I have owned Guilds from just about every plant. They were all mostly good to great guitars. And hey you help the brand by contributing to this site I believe even if indirectly. Guild noobs who want to own something new can come and read our opinions / observations and make informed decisions about what they might purchase. That in its own way is keeping the brand relevant.
 

D30Man

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I don’t think the used market is to blame. If so that would be true for other manufacturers as well. Plenty of people buy used Martin’s, Taylors, Eastmans, and plenty buy new. There are a lot of players who don’t want the “hassle” or risk of buying used.
Very true. A lot of folks want to put their own wear and tear on their guitars. I have a buddy who refuses to buy used guitars.
 

HeyMikey

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Very true. A lot of folks want to put their own wear and tear on their guitars. I have a buddy who refuses to buy used guitars.

Well that was me until I got interested in Guilds and found they aren’t making the models in the US that I wanted. So, I started looking for used.
 

F312

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Compared to all the other Guild location startups, CMG has demonstrated a lack of enthusiasm. Their first mistake was moving the operations to California ("oh, the time and talent wasted"). A time when Guild guitars were at their Zenith. All CMG had to do was, go to the beach. They need to remove the target off their big toe. My .02¢.
 

Westerly Wood

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Compared to all the other Guild location startups, CMG has demonstrated a lack of enthusiasm. Their first mistake was moving the operations to California ("oh, the time and talent wasted"). A time when Guild guitars were at their Zenith. All CMG had to do was, go to the beach. They need to remove the target off their big toe. My .02¢.
good point Ralph. They could have just left NH open and running as it did, and do their thing with the MIC market. how could it have been cheaper or more cost effective to move everything to Oxnard?
 

Wellington

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I don’t think the used market is to blame. If so that would be true for other manufacturers as well. Plenty of people buy used Martin’s, Taylors, Eastmans, and plenty buy new. There are a lot of players who don’t want the “hassle” or risk of buying used.
In my case I live in a much more remote area in Canada, finding used Guilds 'locally' is very rare, let alone a specific model. Reverb I never see the prices people say you can find used ones for, and if there is a decent one shipping is another$300-$600 for where I live. Whereas I can go to a shop, there's a Guild authorized place in my province, they don't stock much but they can order it in and I'm covered under warranty that way because they're authorized. So I mean for new because of my circumstances, but if I found a good used price I would definitely consider.
 

fronobulax

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I don’t think the used market is to blame. If so that would be true for other manufacturers as well. Plenty of people buy used Martin’s, Taylors, Eastmans, and plenty buy new. There are a lot of players who don’t want the “hassle” or risk of buying used.

Guild management working in New Harford made the comment at a couple of the LMGs so someone besides the folks at LTG think the vintage Guilds and new Guilds compete in the same market. It's almost automatic that when a new person comes to LTG looking for advice on a new Guild, one or more folks will post about vintage alternatives at a similar or lower price. So I don't think it is just me :)

Your comparisons to other brands are noted but both Martin and Taylor produce 100,000 +/- 25,000 instruments per year, each. New Hartford never exceeded 5,000 in a year. So there is a significant size difference in the number of instruments in the market. I think that is a factor. If I can choose from thousands of new instruments I am less likely to even look at used unless I want and expect serious cost savings and am willing to accept the downside of new. If I can't even find a new instrument of my desired model then I have no choice but to go used. So I believe Guild's low production numbers help create the opportunity for used Guilds to compete.
 

donnylang

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Since CMG bought Guild and probably saved it from disappearing or becoming an offshore only brand neglected by FMIC, LTG has been littered with discussions concerning decisions CMG has made. Many of those decisions don't make a lot of sense to us because most of us know the history and tradition better than CMG does or place a higher importance on those factors than CMG does. When trying to make sense of what CMG is doing the most rational explanations follow the money. When CMG opened production at Oxnard my recollection is that they made "feel good" type of statement that they wanted to offer all of the traditional models eventually. That was not a promise but did shift the question from "will they make?" to "when will they make?". The generic answer to that is they will make something when they believe they can make money doing so. So if we really want to know and CMG won't commit, we should look at the market.

Tangentially Paul Simon is not going to help Guild sell F-30's. The small sample of people young enough to be my kids or grandkids that I have queried don't listen to him. If they have heard of him it is because their parents/grandparents played Simon and Garfinkle recordings from the 60's and 70's or they are Star Wars geeks who know he was briefly married to Carrie Fisher. The generation that remembers him with fondness seems just as likely to buy vintage F-30s than new ones. Once again the biggest competition a new MIA Guild has is a vintage MIA Guild.

IMO. YMMV.
My opinion is you are likely correct in your observations, however:

I think that the current Guild company has not taken an approach that will help them much. They could go with more than one angle, and different approaches do not have to be mutually exclusive.

They could make classic models that emphasize the iconic nature of some of their guitars. I think part of the issue is the history. They've had so many changes, it wasn't possible to maintain consistency in their marketing ... like- kids today may not care that Cat Stevens used the Gibson J200, but it's iconic partially because he used it, then the next guy used, then the next guy used it- among many other guys. What I'm getting at is Cat Stevens might have picked up the J200 because Elvis did. Then the next guy picked it up because Cat Stevens played it. Then that guy became the current player that kids look up to ...

You have similar stories with Guild's iconic models, but Guild themselves do not seem to be doing much to broadcast these things (maybe a little but on their Instagram, etc.). My biggest beef is their current models don't really look or spec out like the classic models. If they made a line of "Iconic classics" or whatever, along with the cheapies ... they might be onto something.

What I'm getting at is- sure maybe teenage kids looking to buy a guitar don't even know who Zal from the Lovin' Spoonful is. But lots of musicians do, and musicians note the kinds of guitars that these classic fellows played. So if done right, you'd have current players grabbing these classic models- and kids learning to play looking to the current players.

Look at what Guild was doing in the '60s when they were very successful- they had lots of famous players in their ads and catalogs. Mark Dronge still does this with DR strings. As far as I can tell, it works well.
 

fronobulax

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Compared to all the other Guild location startups, CMG has demonstrated a lack of enthusiasm. Their first mistake was moving the operations to California ("oh, the time and talent wasted"). A time when Guild guitars were at their Zenith. All CMG had to do was, go to the beach. They need to remove the target off their big toe. My .02¢.

My recollection from 2014 is that FMIC either did not put the New Hartford factory (which made other brands as well) on the table or CMG chose not to buy it. If the former then it wasn't CMG's mistake since the alternative seems to have been to not buy the brand. We can argue whether the latter was a mistake, but there is something attractive to being able to build a new state of the art factory from scratch under the guidance of a renowned guitar builder. I expect the costs of the new plant, operating for a decade or more were much less that the costs of of running in a century old repurposed mill.
 

Wellington

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I didn't realize there was contention with CMG and Oxnard. As someone new to Guild, I don't have any issues other than as the thread stated I was hoping they would make the F-30. My guitar is a 2020 and I find it exceptional, I've been playing trying out so many other guitars the last 5 weeks and once I'm home and play my D40T I confirm again that I can't find a guitar I prefer more yet. I think they're doing something right, I'm glad they bought the company as opposed to it potentially disappearing.
 

GGJaguar

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I didn't realize there was contention with CMG and Oxnard.
I don't think there are issues with the quality of Oxnard-built Guilds. I have a 2019 F-412 (they call it F-512M) and it's a fantastic, well-built guitar. It's just easy to criticize CMG's decisions about what they do or don't do, that's all. :)
 

fronobulax

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I didn't realize there was contention with CMG and Oxnard. As someone new to Guild, I don't have any issues other than as the thread stated I was hoping they would make the F-30. My guitar is a 2020 and I find it exceptional, I've been playing trying out so many other guitars the last 5 weeks and once I'm home and play my D40T I confirm again that I can't find a guitar I prefer more yet. I think they're doing something right, I'm glad they bought the company as opposed to it potentially disappearing.

I don't think there is any contention between CMG, Oxnard and Guild. There are many folks on LTG who like to second guess Guild's actions or CMG's actions as they relate to Guild but they tend to be about managing the brand and the direction of the product line. Those that have played guitars from Oxnard tend to praise them.
 

Br1ck

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I'm going to take as a given that Guild has done extensive market research, and knows what they can and can't sell. If they asked me what Guild I'd want to buy, I'd answer D 55, D 40/adi top, F 50, F 112, and then maybe an F 30. Dealers are going to be an even harder sell if they have 000 18s and a plethora of Taylors hanging on the wall. If used F 30s were going for $3K, it might peak some interest.

Gibson had no interest in replicas when you could buy a 50s J 45 for $4-5K. When the banners became $8000, Gibson thought there could be a market for $6000 reproductions. The last F 30 I saw was very clean with a price of $1500 in a top dollar shop.
 

tommym

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Will Guild Make a USA F-30 Again?

If they do, it will be rebranded as an OM-40 or OM-50.

How about a Paul Simon OM-50 GSR? Anyone?

Tommy
 

Okko

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Had one, Mike. Also had a Hoboken F-20. I moved on from the OK, but a little small sounding F-20. The M-40, however, seemed quiet and character-less.

Overpriced, at any rate.
I have the M-40E and i love her….plays very easy and sounds modest and fine…
 

adorshki

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good point Ralph. They could have just left NH open and running as it did, and do their thing with the MIC market. how could it have been cheaper or more cost effective to move everything to Oxnard?
They didn't own the building and I'm willing to bet it wasn't for sale or rent.

Remember it was Ovation's home first, and they wound up being bought by Drum Workshop, who also bought the building and brought Ovation production back to the US.

Oxnard makes sense due to proximity to LA, Long Beach, and San Diego harbors, international and domestic shipping logistics are undoubtedly cheaper, especially now.
 
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adorshki

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Will Guild Make a USA F-30 Again?

If they do, it will be rebranded as an OM-40 or OM-50.

How about a Paul Simon OM-50 GSR? Anyone?

Tommy
How about Mississippi John Hurt?
1633122328900.jpeg
 

D30Man

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I didn't realize there was contention with CMG and Oxnard. As someone new to Guild, I don't have any issues other than as the thread stated I was hoping they would make the F-30. My guitar is a 2020 and I find it exceptional, I've been playing trying out so many other guitars the last 5 weeks and once I'm home and play my D40T I confirm again that I can't find a guitar I prefer more yet. I think they're doing something right, I'm glad they bought the company as opposed to it potentially disappearing.
I couldn’t agree more. CMG seems to let Guild be Guild and continue making great instruments. My F55 is an example for sure.
 
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