Why we're all geezers here.

[fronobulax]

This article describes research that seems to indicate that people who have been playing musical instruments for "a lifetime" suffer less deterioration in the brain functions that process sound, compared to non-players. This is independent of the usual hearing loss that most people experience by the age of 60.

Since the Wall Street Journal article cited above claims to be for subscribers only even though I was able to find the fill text via Google this link also describes the study. This search's second entry seems to bypass the pay wall.

Since the study deals with brain function and not hearing loss, it still applies to those of us who played too many loud gigs/went to too many loud concerts before discovering earplugs.

 

[dreadnut]

Saw BTO in '74 at San Diego Sports Arena, couldn't hear very well for four days or so afterwards. We were in the 2nd row.

My wife accuses me of not hearing her but that's probably more selective hearing than anything else.

She, on the other hand, dries her hair every morning with a hand-held hair dryer that sounds a lot like a Pratt & Whitney jet engine.

 

[jte]

Saw BTO in '74 at San Diego Sports Arena, couldn't hear very well for four days or so afterwards. We were in the 2nd row.

My condolences...

My wife accuses me of not hearing her but that's probably more selective hearing than anything else.

My physician told me that as men age, a normal process is development of deterioration of hearing in the upper mid-range frequencies- right where most female human voices are pitched. Seriously....

Though MY wife ain't buying it either....
John

 

[dapmdave]

This article describes research that seems to indicate that people who have been playing musical instruments for "a lifetime" suffer less deterioration in the brain functions that process sound, compared to non-players. This is independent of the usual hearing loss that most people experience by the age of 60.

Since the Wall Street Journal article cited above claims to be for subscribers only even though I was able to find the fill text via Google this link also describes the study. This search's second entry seems to bypass the pay wall.

Since the study deals with brain function and not hearing loss, it still applies to those of us who played too many loud gigs/went to too many loud concerts before discovering earplugs.

But are they factoring in the deterioration in the brain functions linked to common musician lifestyle choices. Lots of smokers (various substances), and drinkers, and folks out in the wee hours.

Just wonderin'

Dave

 

[john_kidder]

I lost my high-frequency hearing in my 20s, working in very loud mining concentrators without hearing protection (the companies advised us to stick cotton batten in our ears - later tests showed the sound pressure on the grinding floor to be between 90-105 dB).

I hear nearly nothing above 4Khz (audio tests show that my hearing drops 100dB at 4K, which is just about extinction). When I worked for Roland in the 80s, I could kill dogs and children miles from my office by diddling about with synthesizers in ranges I just couldn't hear at all - other guys would run into my office and slam all the faders down just to relieve the pain.

The deal with high-frequency loss and conversation, especially conversation in English, was explained to me by an audiologist: there are far more words in English than in most other languages that use sibilants ("s", soft "c", "ph", "f', etc.) as initial consonants. These are by their nature high frequency and low amplitude sounds - just try whispering to yourself and you'll hear how an "s" becomes a whistle without much change. So, in normal English conversation, sibilants are very important. Without good high-frequency hearing, the sibilants easily get drowned in background noises or even just indiscernible in ordinary conversation. And the female voice is just slightly higher-pitched, and sometimes a little softer, than the average male voice. And so we lose the clues to the words - even if we hear clearly the broad vowels and hard consonants, the loss of the sibilants can make the words unrecognizable. I've been an amateur lip-reader for years in bars and parties, only way to get by. And my wife used to know that she needed to face me and speak clearly, or I would just miss her intention (not to to say that there might not have been at some times just a bit of a personal desire not to hear).

It's not "selective hearing" although it can seem like that. If you have a problem hearing your female partner, test yourself in a noisy bar situation - if you can make out all the conversation there, you are ignoring your partner. If, on the other hand, you find conversation difficult to follow with lots of background noise, you're exonerated.

 

[adorshki]

But are they factoring in the deterioration in the brain functions linked to common musician lifestyle choices. Lots of smokers (various substances), and drinkers, and folks out in the wee hours.
Just wonderin'
Dave

No subjects meeting the abstinence criteria were found for comparison. And, much like another popular lifestyle activity, the ones that said they abstained were lying.

 

[fronobulax]

But are they factoring in the deterioration in the brain functions linked to common musician lifestyle choices. Lots of smokers (various substances), and drinkers, and folks out in the wee hours.
Just wonderin'
Dave

No subjects meeting the abstinence criteria were found for comparison. And, much like another popular lifestyle activity, the ones that said they abstained were lying.

Y'all just presuming that all musicians are professional and have adopted stereotypical decadent lifestyle associated with rock and rollers and some jazz musicians. Presumably the study results would also apply to folks who play bluegrass, classical, instruments without strings and play just for fun in the privacy of their own abode. Geesh!

 

[Walking Man]

Huh? What was that?

 

[bluesypicky]

Y'all just presuming that all musicians are professional and have adopted stereotypical decadent lifestyle associated with rock and rollers

Really??? I didn't have to?.... Man, all this time wasted with chicks! When I could have studied more. :roll:

 

[dreadnut]

I recently wrote a paper on the healing effects of music on the elderly and I found some fascinating research, here are some excerpts:

According to Alzheimer’s research at Dartmouth College, Hanover, N.H.:

“Memory, in particular, is where music helps most. There is a part of the human brain where music stays indelibly. Called the rostromedial prefrontal cortex and centrally located behind the forehead, this portion of the brain processes and tracks music. It is also active during memory retrieval.”

Research also shows that the prefrontal lobe is one of the last areas of the brain to atrophy in Alzheimer’s patients. This would help explain why even those patients in the advanced stages of the disease are able to recall song lyrics and music from their past when almost all other memories have faded away.

It also appears that music can actually help re-attach some brain synapses that have atrophied. According to Alzheimer’s Disease researchers Claudio Bonanomi and M. Cristina Gerosa:

“The sensory and emotional areas can be considered as the field where the personality of patient can still manifest and express itself and also are the starting point for building up new structures which can open up new means of communication and interaction with reality. The response to the music therapy treatment has been considered as extraordinary by the medical team in spite of the poor health conditions of the patients. The responses obtained in all the areas prove that it is possible to treat patients even in an advanced stage.

Dr. Oliver Sacks, author of Musicophilia: Tales of Music and the Brain (2007), observes that for those with severe dementia, music -- particularly familiar music -- can bring back "emotions and associations that had been long forgotten, giving the patient access once again to moods and memories, thoughts and worlds that had seemingly been completely lost. The power of music is very remarkable... One sees Parkinsonian patients unable to walk, but able to dance perfectly well or patients almost unable to talk, who are able to sing perfectly well. I think that music therapy and music therapists are crucial and indispensable in institutions for elderly people and among all neurologically disabled patients.”

Interestingly, the most marked improvements were noted when the patients participated in live music sessions on a regular basis.

 

[bluesypicky]

Back to seriousness about the hearing loss, I am practically deaf from the right ear, as a result of many "butchered" paracentesis following ear infections I frequently had as a child, which basically consisted in punching a hole in the ear drum to let the pus come out, and a lot of high volume stage environment, both as a player and a spectator.
Last hearing test I've taken, got my otorhinolaryngologist mention earing aid, but I still chicken out at the idea of walking around with a visible piece of equipment behind my ear.
It is at the point where if I am asleep laying on my good (or I should say better :? ) hearing ear, I will not hear the alarm clock when it goes off :shock: , but thankfully my wife does and wakes me up. :roll:
One of the most handicapping situations I encounter, is what John mentions in his post: If you try having a conversation with me in a noisy environment, you will have to repeat the same sentence several times at increasing volume outputs. I also cannot deal with "whisperers" (see Seinfeld episode :lol: ), as there are a few at work, and often find myself nodding at something I haven't heard, in an effort to avoid irritating people... (for some reason that I actually don't really understand, some people are annoyed at having to repeat a sentence or a word you haven't heard the first time around :? )
Just a heads up to the LMG folks: TALK LOUD TO ME! :lol:
I console myself in reminding me that many great musicians are cursed with this impairing condition (as I saw Beck explain in one of his interviews) but can still perform on their instrument, and Beethoven was deaf....

 

[adorshki]

But are they factoring in the deterioration in the brain functions linked to common musician lifestyle choices. Lots of smokers (various substances), and drinkers, and folks out in the wee hours.
Just wonderin'
Dave

No subjects meeting the abstinence criteria were found for comparison. And, much like another popular lifestyle activity, the ones that said they abstained were lying.

Presumably the study results would also apply to folks who ... play just for fun in the privacy of their own abode. Geesh!

My point exactly.

 

[poser]

Very interesting thread. Thanks for all the contributions. I have many of the symptoms described. Certain women's voices are completely unintelligible to me. I do have problems with consonants. Now I know why.
Perhaps I should start learning lip reading, cause, alas, it ain't gonna get better.

 

[killdeer43]

For my dos centavos, I lost my high-end hearing on August 5, 1989....a day that will be hard to forget, and most of what I "remember" has been related to me by friends and medical professionals who were on the scene that day and during the 5 days I spent in the hospital.
The hearing loss was one end-result of a tumbling 30' fall that I did not walk away from, and in the process sustained 24 separate injuries, including 2 skull fractures and numerous other broken body parts.
:shock:
I had a major concussion and bleeding from both ears, and subsequent hearing tests confirmed what I already knew. I still have occasional ringing in my ears and every now and then, I feel as though some of that high end is coming back, but I'm not counting on it.

All in all, the story has a happy ending, in that I'm here to tell the tale. EMTs and docs all agree that I'm lucky to be here, and I'll have to agree.

Life is good,
Joe

 

[adorshki]

but I still chicken out at the idea of walking around with a visible piece of equipment behind my ear.

Hey, 80 million cell phone users can't be wrong.
Except when they are.
Let us not dismiss lightly the ever-growing self-defeating nature of taht particular audio technology. As size diminishes, fidelity follows in perfect lockstep.

I console myself in reminding me that many great musicians are cursed with this impairing condition (as I saw Beck explain in one of his interviews) but can still perform on their instrument, and Beethoven was deaf....

Those guys use(d) life-size instruments. You don't have to hear 'em. You can FEEL 'em!!!!
YEAH!!!

 

[adorshki]

I recently wrote a paper on the healing effects of music on the elderly and I found some fascinating research, here are some excerpts:

Thank you for that stuff, just thank you! 8)
My aunt serenaded my grandmother as she passed to the next plane with her (grandma's) autoharp. Playing stuff grandma taught her as a little girl.

 

[fronobulax]

Really??? I didn't have to?.... Man, all this time wasted with chicks! When I could have studied more. :roll:

Chicks? People play music to get chicks? Maybe tuba wasn't such a good choice.

 

[bluesypicky]

Priceless cartoon..... and why did I bother learning to play? I see it's not even necessary. :lol:

 

[Nigel Wickwire]

For my dos centavos, I lost my high-end hearing on August 5, 1989....a day that will be hard to forget, and most of what I "remember" has been related to me by friends and medical professionals who were on the scene that day and during the 5 days I spent in the hospital.
The hearing loss was one end-result of a tumbling 30' fall that I did not walk away from, and in the process sustained 24 separate injuries, including 2 skull fractures and numerous other broken body parts.
:shock:
I had a major concussion and bleeding from both ears, and subsequent hearing tests confirmed what I already knew. I still have occasional ringing in my ears and every now and then, I feel as though some of that high end is coming back, but I'm not counting on it.

All in all, the story has a happy ending, in that I'm here to tell the tale. EMTs and docs all agree that I'm lucky to be here, and I'll have to agree.

Life is good,
Joe

Well that explains a lot! :shock: Wish you'd 'fessed up sooner

Just kiddin'. Glad you're Ok, Joe. Could have been a much different outcome.

~nw

 

[killdeer43]

Glad you're Ok, Joe. Could have been a much different outcome.
~nw

Thanks, Nigel.
Yeah, just think, I could have missed out on LTG :shock: , among other things. :wink:

Take care,
Joe