Why are some guitars better than Guild?

[tjmangum]

While playing my Collings SJ this morning, it occurred to me, why is there a difference between this and a Guild? I realize this is very subjective, but given that Guild has (has had) access to the same sources of wood, working with similar designs with quality craftsman, why isn't their product an equal to a Collings, Santa Cruz or Bourgeois? What is the difference that takes things up a notch or two in delivering a better product in guitars? Is it the smaller shop? Is it the singular vision of the individual running things?
Or do they build as good of an instrument and I'm blinded by confirmatory bias?
T

 

[chazmo]

I haven't played a Collings, but the guy who runs the New Hartford shop does and loves them.

I'm not sure I have an answer for you, tj. I'm not sure I've ever played richer sounding jumbos than Guild's (to my ears). As for dreadnaughts... In that space it's almost a question of what are you looking for. As Martin demonstrates across their line, just moving the braces around a little bit changes the entire sound of the guitar. I'm sure this is true on jumbos as well...

And, frankly, most guitars these days are built well. You look at a modern Taylor or Guild and there's nothing to question regarding quality, etc. Of course, when you start getting more boutique you get more attention by the master luthier(s) to the individual guitars and less rote assembly-line work.

 

[fronobulax]

Dunno. What always impresses me on the LMG tours is the attention to details that I never imagined would be important. So perhaps the difference is that there are details that matter to the people making one brand but not to (or are unknown to) the other.

Some of those things I noticed:

• The humidity control of the wood, including kiln drying and storage area.
  [/*:m:2nonawda]
• Using the same blade to cut fret slots as opposed to multiple blades that wear out at different rates (and thus produce uneven slots).
  [/*:m:2nonawda]
• "routing out" the edges of the bridge so the bridge can be glued to wood yet still fit flush to the finish.
  [/*:m:2nonawda]
• Ability to form identical bracing components.[/*:m:2nonawda]

If we could have a discussion around here about GADs that didn't generate into xenophobia and jingoism then looking at the differences between GADs and NH Guilds that exist because of the price point might also bear on your question. I think (and my memory has been untrustworthy of late so get out your salt shaker and fact checker) that the wood used in GADs is not as high a quality as what is used in NH. I think the finish on GADs is thicker and perhaps applied with less care regarding unevenness. I think some of the components on GADs are "less precise" in the sense that tolerances are looser.

I also think that when you reach a certain quality of instrument, "better" becomes highly subjective and extremely difficult to correlate with any specific construction materials or techniques.

 

[davismanLV]

You might want to restate that as, "Why are some guitars better than others?" Not just Guild. Guitars are individuals. Even within the same brand. The two variables are WOOD and CONSTRUCTION. Wood is a natural product and its properties do vary from tree to tree. Is handmade better than machine crafted? Hard to say. I've never seen such consistency as I have with my Taylor GC8. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you pick a GC8 off the wall from wherever you are in the world, it will sound exactly like mine does in my living room. I think that's a good thing because mine sounds amazing. That has to do with the wood and the production methods. Exacting standards and finely tuned tolerances.

I'd say it's a difficult question to answer and you're probably gonna get all kinds of answers. 8)

 

[tjmangum]

You might want to restate that as, "Why are some guitars better than others?" Not just Guild. Guitars are individuals. Even within the same brand. The two variables are WOOD and CONSTRUCTION.

I agree. And even with Taylor's consistency, there are still ones that sound better, of the same line, than others. Maybe the question should be, "What makes a better guitar?"

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

The most important factor that all good guitars have is a label that doesn't say Gibson.

But seriously, Collings, Bourgeois, and Santa Cruz all cost more, don't they? If you compare dollar for dollar, I'd classify Guild as their equal. And in used guitars, there ain't no better buy than a Guild.

 

[Bikerdoc]

I often wondered what makes one guitar of seemingly equal $$ value so much better sounding as well. And of course as stated, it's all subjective. However, what's even more surprising (confusing) to me is what makes a supposedly "high end" Martin, Taylor, Guild, etc. worth 2, 3, 4, or 5 grand? I certainly can't play any better with a 5 grand guitar or any worse for that matter with a 2 grand guitar.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I will change the statement farther by asking, " why do some guitars sound different from other guitar made from the same woods".

I have a friend that builds guitars. He tells me that there are many reasons that guitars have different voices.
The type and location of braces, type of glue, type of neck set, thickness of wood and type and thickness of the finish.
The list goes on and on.

Why do Collings guitars sound different from Guild guitars?
Because they are not built the same.

Why do Martins sound different from Taylors?
Because they are not built the same.

Why does Martin have the " Martin Sound"?
Why does Guild have the "Guild" Sound"?

Are any of them better than the others.
Only you can answer that.

 

[killdeer43]

I have owned two GAD30s and the second one had a noticeably better sound than the first.
I would take back the second one and trade it in for the D4 that I have now because it sounds that much better and it's a more comfortable guitar to play. I sold it to a friend so I still get to play it now and then. :wink:

It's best to avoid too-broad brush strokes here, IMHO .... way too many variables.

Joe

*I remember buying a D28 years ago and sure enough, all my mistakes sounded much better. :lol:

 

[walrus]

Ouch, Darryl! I love my ES-135...

Even guitars from the same manufacturer can sound "better" or "worse", so this is very tough to answer. Perhaps a luthier could answer more clearly. I had a Martin D-35 for a few years that I soon realized did not sound as good as it should have for the price, but that was my opinion, so I think any answer is relatively subjective.

walrus

 

[taabru45]

Back in '80 when Guilds were in the music stores I was trying different 512s and of course they were all nice, then one day I picked up the one I still have, within the minute I knew this was the one....it takes the 2 of you to make the match, the magic!. I looked for about 6 months, it was fun to watch Joe's eyes glaze over when he played it one time. :lol: Steffan

 

[killdeer43]

it was fun to watch Joe's eyes glaze over when he played it one time. :lol: Steffan

And they're still glazed over. :lol:

Joe

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

Wally,

Just joking around. Their archies are the gold standard. However, I really don't like their acoustics.

hf

 

[Darryl Hattenhauer]

?

 

[jte]

First, each guitar is made of wood from different trees. Because no chunk of wood is going to be the same as another chunk of wood, each guitar is an individual. Second, a guitar is a complex system of interacting parts. Given that so many of the parts in an acoustic are made out of wood, and even many different species, let alone different trees, the way they interact will vary tremendously. Third, every guitar maker has to make a lot of choices for which trade-offs they're going to accept in the design, construction, marketing, and warranty of their guitars. Balancing the stiffness of bracing versus being able to reliably hold up over 25+ years with a wide range of strings is one that pops into my head right away.

And none if this take into consideration the huge variety of what sounds "good", either. And I think THAT also has an impact. If a maker likes a certain balance of bass/mid/treble they'll build to that.

John

 

[Yoko Oh No]

why were some girls on the island hotter than others?

same flesh and blood...

 

[twocorgis]

Wally,

Just joking around. Their archies are the gold standard. However, I really don't like their acoustics.

hf

You're only saying that because you've never played my WM45, Hat. Gibson's QC with their acoustic line can be rather spotty, but when they're good, they're really good. I sold my Bourgeois Slope D when I bought it, and it was a wonderful guitar too. I've owned a Collings D2H that was a nice guitar, and impeccably made, but I liked my old D50 every bit as much so when it came time for one of the rosewood dreads to go it was the Collings. I own a Martin D18 David Crosby Signature that I think is the best square shoulder dread I've ever played (so does my luthier), and a Bourgeois cedar topped Jumbo OM (that's it in dapmdave's avatar) that I think is absolutely magnificent. In fact, I think that Dana Bourgeois might be the best luthier out there period, but that's JMO, of course.

I think where Guilds really shine is with the 12ers. IMO they're far better than the rest.

 

[Scratch]

Good question and lots of subjective answers as we would expect.

Love my Guilds and there's no doubt they are the best bang for the bucket on the market Like any brand, you get some good ones and you get some stinkers. Had a couple Guilds that played equal to high end Martin standards. Also had some that lacked soul; various strings; luthier work etc. made no difference. They were duds, but of all the many Guilds that have lived here; only three come to mind as unworthy. Having owned many 12 string guitars representing nearly every brand, IMO, absolutely nothing comes close to Guild 12ers... They worthily provided brand recognition back in the day

Really enjoy my Gibby Custom J-45; but then Ren had a hand in it's existence, so that's easy to understand.

Best guitar I've owned? Never played a guitar that I enjoy as much as the Santa Cruz OM/PW. It speaks in ways no other guitar can. Difference? Santa Cruz makes less than 700 guitars a year; almost 70% are custom orders. Richard Hoover goes to extremes to travel to remote areas; to identify and select woods used in his instruments. He's a master at it and does not relegate the task to anyone else. If you play an SC; Richard personally selected the wood. Guess that's one reason they cost more.

I'd love to have a Collings OM1 or OM2. Played this OM1GSb. http://www.hillcountryguitars.com/detai ... 12&gid=623 Absolutely Incredible instrument but I'll most likely never be able to own one like it...

There's credibility in the adage that you usually get what you pay for...

 

[walrus]

Hey Darryl, I knew you were kidding, just couldn't pass up a comment!

"You get what you pay for" is true most of the time. But I played a few extremely high end guitars one day at a shop that specializes in them (I played one that was over 10K), and the outrageously priced ones IMHO did not sound any better. They did, however, have some very exotic woods, which explained the price. Still, "You get what you pay for", works for this example too, just not regarding the quality of the sound.

walrus

 

[adorshki]

Still, "You get what you pay for", works for this example too, just not regarding the quality of the sound.
walrus

Corrollary to that, you ever notice how the "price per unit of quality" increases exponentially for a given guitar, while the actual units of quality only increase incrementally?
Same thing with cars, too.
:? :lol: