What do you guys think of the $800 price point for NS S-100's?

[S100]

I think it kind of puts it in a tough spot. Its not quite a budget guitar when you could get a used (good condition) USA SG or even a U.S. RI S-100 around that price. I guess it just depends on how much value you put on "Made in USA". I've not gotten the chance to play a NS model, so maybe they're a steal at that price. What do you guys think?

 

[chazmo]

That's a really good question! Guild's conundrum in recent years has been (on all fronts) that the used market undercuts the new. Why spend big $$ on new when you can buy used, get great history, and get a lifetime guitar out of doing so?

Fender spent years trying to figure out a good answer to that question, and yet here you are asking it about the MIK guitars. Apparently, the answer is elusive.

It's a particularly interesting discussion when you talk about new models that are fashioned after the old ones, such as the Newark Street models, which invite direct comparisons like this. The S-100 in particular is an excellent case study, since there's a million of them out there, cheap, in the used market.

 

[fronobulax]

My observation is that people who really know and understand vintage Guild electrics have a clear cut understanding of how the vintage instruments differ form the Newark Street models. I can't recall anyone ever preferring the Newark Street models for strictly functional reasons (which is the better guitar for my purposes?) but when cost, availability and replace-ability are factors they are often the clear cut winner. I also think we at LTG tend to downplay the portion of the market that is driven by condition. Just as there are people who will buy an instrument that has been pre-mojo'd there are people who won't buy unless it is new or in excellent condition. So I think the price point is reasonable for a portion of the market although the demographics of that market differ from the demographics of LTG.

 

[bluesypicky]

My observation is that people who really know and understand vintage Guild electrics have a clear cut understanding of how the vintage instruments differ form the Newark Street models.

Sure do.

OP, when you mention "budget guitars", you are referring to the global guitar market.
A "budget guitar" in the global market, is priced around $300 / $400, and is often close to unplayable, un-tunable, or both.

While Guild is aiming at a lower price point with its imports line, they are still aiming at a quality way superior to what is found on a "global market budget guitar".

I wouldn't buy an import Guild because I know and appreciate too well the sonic difference with the vintage stuff (as alluded above by Master Fro), but I acknowledge the superiority of import Guilds in terms of finish details and playability, (compared to global market budget guitars) and therefore agree that the $800 mark is fair and on target as far as I'm concerned.

 

[JohnW63]

Of course, there are those of us that can't yet justify the approx $1500 and up price of a nice vintage Guild electric. I keep watching for that killer deal, but it is too easy for people to figure out what the going price of their guitar should be. So, for me, when a NS X175B was offered for less than even the $800 price, I bought it. It's a lot of fun, and makes we want to try to learn different styles of music. Would I sell it and buy a nice X175 with the right pickups, made in the US, if the price was right. Sure. But, I keep asking myself, would anyone but ME hear the difference ? I might find more of a change with a vintage amp than changing the guitar.

Personally, I think all the NS guitars are good for brand building. You get the feel and look and a lot of the tone for a lot less. When you really know what you want and what your missing, THEN you can get a more expensive Guild and be sure of what your getting. The question is, can Guild build a new, Made in USA electric at a competitive price that will entice people to buy it over other brands ?

 

[bluesypicky]

Of course, there are those of us that can't yet justify the approx $1500 and up price of a nice vintage Guild electric. I keep watching for that killer deal, but it is too easy for people to figure out what the going price of their guitar should be. So, for me, when a NS X175B was offered for less than even the $800 price, I bought it. It's a lot of fun, and makes we want to try to learn different styles of music. Would I sell it and buy a nice X175 with the right pickups, made in the US, if the price was right. Sure. But, I keep asking myself, would anyone but ME hear the difference ? I might find more of a change with a vintage amp than changing the guitar.

Personally, I think all the NS guitars are good for brand building. You get the feel and look and a lot of the tone for a lot less. When you really know what you want and what your missing, THEN you can get a more expensive Guild and be sure of what your getting. The question is, can Guild build a new, Made in USA electric at a competitive price that will entice people to buy it over other brands ?

I agree with most of this except the $1500 quote for a used Guild (of course I'm not talking about the 50's and 60's collector's items).
While a nice vintage Guild is worth every penny of the $1500 amount you quote, they can be had for less.
My experience (with not so ancient transactions) is closer to the $1000 - $1200 range.

Of course it sometimes involves patience until the right one shows up, and more importantly,none of this even needs to be debated if the difference cannot be heard by your ear.

 

[JohnW63]

more importantly,none of this even needs to be debated if the difference cannot be heard by your ear.

I've never had the chance to even lay my hands on an older Guild electric. I would hope I could say, " Now THAT sounds awesome ", and not ponder if it's much different than the NS line of the same guitar. They say that a big part of a player's tone is in their fingers. I don't know what my fingers are capable of, electrically. I have listened to a LOT of Guild YouTubes, trying to learn about how all the different versions of pick-ups sound on all the different body types. It's a little daunting and hard to make comparisions. Different pics, different amps, different effects, different players. Maybe I'll find something cool at a GC store, so I can return it, if I can't make it sing to me.

 

[bluesypicky]

I've never had the chance to even lay my hands on an older Guild electric. I would hope I could say, " Now THAT sounds awesome ", and not ponder if it's much different than the NS line of the same guitar. They say that a big part of a player's tone is in their fingers. I don't know what my fingers are capable of, electrically. I have listened to a LOT of Guild YouTubes, trying to learn about how all the different versions of pick-ups sound on all the different body types. It's a little daunting and hard to make comparisions. Different pics, different amps, different effects, different players. Maybe I'll find something cool at a GC store, so I can return it, if I can't make it sing to me.

We have discussed this before, and it is undeniable that some player can make ANY guitar sound good, and that the amp (and anything in between it and the guitar) have a lot to do with the final result.

With that said, there is this little something (je ne sais quoi?) that makes all the difference in the world to some (including myself) between the "real vintage thing" and the imitation, and that is not unique to Guild btw.... same goes with anything "vintage".

I have yet to find any reissue Fender amp that sounds anything like the original black or silverface, no matter how much effort one puts into replicating circuitry and everything else involved.

It's all about whether or not one hears the difference, and how much it is worth to his ear (or brain). :teapot:

 

[Fixit]

Hi all, I am at NAMM Show in Nashville, and have spent the day visiting the Guild booth there. I have to agree with Blusey in that the Newark series are a cut above, way above the usual low end guitar of today. I had the opportunity to play a really cool white S-100. It is a nice guitar. It was very noisy at the show and I did not plug it in but it felt great and was set up nicely. I like the 1 11/16" nut width actually better than the narrower vintage models. I believe the Newark series has a lot to offer the electric guitar customer. I believe that Guild is doing a great job in trying to walk the fine line between preserving the historic Guild and trying to address the needs of new and up coming guitar players. The brand has to evolve to meet the needs of the future market. This is no easy task, but I for one am excited about the direction that is being taken for Guilds future.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

My NS Aristocrat is every bit as good a guitar as my '70 Bluesbird. The pots might not last as long but they can be replaced/upgraded easily enough, and for now they work fine. Pickups are different, of course…Franz-ish vs. anti-hums. One a bit brasher, the other a bit sweeter. But both provide clarity with a percussive attack…right in my wheelhouse. In all other respects it's a wash. I'm keeping 'em both.

Things get trickier with new models that reproduce (relatively) affordable "vintage" models. If I were in the market for an S-100, for example, I'd look for a used '70s offering first. But then again if I walked into a shop and found a new one with mojo I'd snap it up without a second thought. (This is in fact how I ended up with the Aristocrat.)

-Dave-

 

[S100]

The question is, can Guild build a new, Made in USA electric at a competitive price that will entice people to buy it over other brands ?

I'm interested to see how this works out. I would expect a new, USA made Guild to need to sell above the current going price of a 70/90s say, S-100.

I hope to play a NS model one day, but there's not currently a Guild dealer anywhere near me. If they drop in value like the 2014's did (seen some in the $600-$700 range), I suppose I'd just buy one to try it out. I do think they are great looking, and by all accounts, well made and good playing instruments. Interested to hear anyone's thought on the new HB-1's if you ever get a hold of one.

 

[JohnW63]

Interested to hear anyone's thought on the new HB-1's if you ever get a hold of one.

Oh, there have certainly been thoughts on that subject !

The issue seems to be that the guitar that was used to replicate the HB-1s had two different values and therefore two different tones. Some feel that one of the test pickups was defective and now the whole line has an incorrectly built pickup. Guild doesn't quite see it that way. I think the feeling is that the pickup that was properly wound sounds good and the other is too weak and isn't great.

 

[jcwu]

Oh, there have certainly been thoughts on that subject !

The issue seems to be that the guitar that was used to replicate the HB-1s had two different values and therefore two different tones. Some feel that one of the test pickups was defective and now the whole line has an incorrectly built pickup. Guild doesn't quite see it that way. I think the feeling is that the pickup that was properly wound sounds good and the other is too weak and isn't great.

Are you sure you aren't talking about the mini buckers?

 

[S100]

Oh, there have certainly been thoughts on that subject !

The issue seems to be that the guitar that was used to replicate the HB-1s had two different values and therefore two different tones. Some feel that one of the test pickups was defective and now the whole line has an incorrectly built pickup. Guild doesn't quite see it that way. I think the feeling is that the pickup that was properly wound sounds good and the other is too weak and isn't great.

Yea, I believe those were the minis in the 2014 models.

 

[JohnW63]

I still can't keep all the darn pickups straight !

So, prior to 2014, the humbuckers used were NOT the mini style and were wound correctly ?

Do the 2014 Minis sound different than the previous HD-1 style ?

I used to think keeping track of what processor to install in my next PC build was hard.

 

[S100]

IIRC, the '13 and '14 both featured mini hums. I don't recall which of those years had the incorrectly wound bridge pup. I guess it was probably the '13, but I don't recall if the problem was fixed in '14. 2015 is the first year of the "full sized" HB-1s. I put that in quotes because we're not sure if they are humbucker sized or vintage HB-1 size.

 

[TVeye]

IIRC, the '13 and '14 both featured mini hums. I don't recall which of those years had the incorrectly wound bridge pup. I guess it was probably the '13, but I don't recall if the problem was fixed in '14. 2015 is the first year of the "full sized" HB-1s. I put that in quotes because we're not sure if they are humbucker sized or vintage HB-1 size.

Thought I cleared up the size issue last night in the Tech Section?

 

[S100]

Oh, cool. I didn't see the post, yet.

 

[matsickma]

One of the things I like about the NS Guilds is they do have the neck of the original. Being a Guild player since the 60's I find the feel of NS models to be "familiar". The used models resell at affordable prices so that I often think about modifying them into Guilds that never were. For example I often muse about pulling the pickups from a mini bucker S100 model and route it out for a set of Franz pups and put a black set of reissues on it. Other ideas abound like putting a set of DeA on a NS CE100D.

I may not get to these project for a long time but I like considering it.

M

 

[S100]

Sure do.

OP, when you mention "budget guitars", you are referring to the global guitar market.
A "budget guitar" in the global market, is priced around $300 / $400, and is often close to unplayable, un-tunable, or both.

While Guild is aiming at a lower price point with its imports line, they are still aiming at a quality way superior to what is found on a "global market budget guitar".

I wouldn't buy an import Guild because I know and appreciate too well the sonic difference with the vintage stuff (as alluded above by Master Fro), but I acknowledge the superiority of import Guilds in terms of finish details and playability, (compared to global market budget guitars) and therefore agree that the $800 mark is fair and on target as far as I'm concerned.

Yea, I shoulda said like a budget Gibson. As far as looks, I'd say the NS S-100 is more attractive than its Gibson counterpart at the same price.