vintage starfire scored, is it stock? experts, please assist

[zulu]

This was marked as a 1968 Starfire II in "The Vault" at Bizarre Guitar in Reno (OMG you've got to go there. they have a multi million dollar collection of vintage guitars, however I digress...) I told them I'm absolutely no expert, but I didn't think it was stock based on the knobs, pickups and switch, and truss rod cover. But I thought it played and sounded like a dream, so they gave me a deal on it and I brought it home.

and spent some time researching

Well based on the serial number (13977) I now think it could be a 1960, They dated it wrong?

And most of the parts at least look like they are from the correct period?. (I was sure wrong in the store, oops)

Those of you who know can you help me determine the originality of this guitar? Thanks in advance, Z.
more pics to follow

 

[zulu]

 

[hansmoust]

This was marked as a 1968 Starfire II in "The Vault" at Bizarre Guitar in Reno (OMG you've got to go there. they have a multi million dollar collection of vintage guitars, however I digress...) I told them I'm absolutely no expert, but I didn't think it was stock based on the knobs, pickups and switch, and truss rod cover. But I thought it played and sounded like a dream, so they gave me a deal on it and I brought it home.

and spent some time researching

Well based on the serial number (13977) I now think it could be a 1960, They dated it wrong?

And most of the parts at least look like they are from the correct period?

Hello Zulu,

You are correct that it is a Starfire from 1960. However, it is written up as a Starfire I in the ledgers from 'final assembly', so it started out as a single pickup guitar.
I have several similar Starfires in my database from that same period and some of them, with very close serial numbers, have the same black DeArmond pickups just like the one in the fingerboard position of your guitar. It is possible that the guitar was set up later as a double pickup guitar. Actually that would happen quite a lot at Guild but I could not find any notes in the ledgers, which does not automatically mean it didn't happen at the factory.
The only thing that is a little weird is the use of two different style pickups, but then again .......... it still might be factory original.

All the parts that were used, (pickup, knobs, indicator nails and switch/ring), are all correct for that particular period.The white pickup is a style that was used for a very short time and they are kind of rare on any Guild guitar.

Now what you do need is an original saddle for your B-string but I might be able to help you with one of these.

Hope this is of some help and that you will enjoy the guitar.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Default]

Whose tooth is that at the b string position? :twisted:

Nice looking beast! :mrgreen:

 

[Walter Broes]

Nice guitar! I played my own DeArmond-pickup Starfire on stage friday, hadn't used it for a long time, and I'm in love with it all over again.

 

[BluesDan]

Gorgeous guitar! Congrats!

 

[zulu]

Thanks all. I knew you guys would come through for me.

Whose tooth is that at the b string position?

I paid extra for that, they told me it's Jimi Hendrix's Tooth.

Now what you do need is an original saddle for your B-string but I might be able to help you with one of these.

Mr. Moust please let me know if you indeed can help, I'd be thrilled to find an original saddle. And thanks for your response.

If only guitars could talk.

 

[zulu]

Do the tuners and case look correct as well?








Again, anybody ever near Reno, you have to see Bizarre Guitar. They wont even tell you about "The Vault" downstairs unless you ask. It's not part of the retail store. Only two guilds down there I believe (one now, an m-20). But it was interesting to see a room full of guitars like, for example, Fender Strat Serial Number 6.

 

[gilded]

Those are the right Kluson tuners for that period.

If you ever lift the pickups out, take pics of the cut-outs in the body and perhaps that could inform someone like Hans if the cutouts were made by the factory, at or near the same time, etc. You never know what The Hans can bring to the table......

I've seen pics of that guitar before from a store (the missing B-string saddle jogged my memory) though I don't know if was from Vegas or from California. I do seem to remember that I sent the Store's pics to Hans more than a year ago and we went through the features together. There are some other aspects of the guitar that are transitional in nature, too, like the neck. I can't remember if it has a center laminate strip or not. Whatever it is, if my aged memory is correct, it may be a bit different from the usual Starfire specs. Not that it matters, it just adds to the story!

Your pics show the guitar looking better than the ones the Selling Store had on the internet, so Congratulations!! Cool guitar.

Take a pic of the label. I'm curious to see what it actually says........

gil

 

[zulu]

I had never seen this square label before

 

[hansmoust]

There are some other aspects of the guitar that are transitional in nature, too, like the neck. I can't remember if it has a center laminate strip or not. Whatever it is, if my aged memory is correct, it may be a bit different from the usual Starfire specs. Not that it matters, it just adds to the story!

Hello gilded,

It's a typical first version Starfire built on the 'supertstructure' of a T-100(D) from that particular period. That would mean a 1-pc. mahogany neck.

Take a pic of the label. I'm curious to see what it actually says........

I'm quite sure it will have the Starfire ink-stamp with a Roman I added after it.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Qvart]

I had never seen this square label before

Hans' book says that label was introduced in '59 and used until the end of '60. "Ghost label."

Nice score! Enjoy!

 

[southernGuild]

WOW! I cant add much to this at all, but sure enjoyed the photos and the story! beautiful guitar and great find! Soon enough you and Hans will have it back to 'all original'....and WHAT A TREAT that will be! I like the case as well.....the whole thing has a great vibe! Great score!!!! I do think, however that you have been mislead on that B string TOOTH, I suspect that DNA testing will show that it once belonged to LEON SPHINKS!!! :lol:

 

[teleharmonium]

I also have an SF with one of those "other" DeArmond single coil pickups and one more typical white top Dynasonic. However, on mine, the positions are reversed. Mine started as a dual pickup guitar, so I assume the original neck pickup died and either the factory or some repair guy had one of those other pickups to use as a replacement.

Personally I like having the two different types in the same guitar, the "other" one is a bit hotter so you get a nice contrast when switching to the neck pickup for more hard driven, darker chords or single note solos, but then mine both white so there's no cosmetic mismatch, and there's something to be said for pickups that are closer together soundwise.

I wonder if Guild simply had a box of those pickups left over and used them as replacements later when guitars with Dynasonic sized holes came in to be repaired or converted to dual pickup ?

 

[bootbun]

This guitar was on the website for "Vintage Vault" guitars for ages, I thought about buying it several times. Vintage Vault was maintained by Travis Ambrose, but all the inventory as far as I know was stored and administered through Bizarre Guitars. I have owned the wonderful Starfire II still listed as "for sale" on this page for a couple of years, which was actually a near NOS 1997 Westerly, not a "2005" as the ad suggests. Bizarre Guitars was great to deal with when I made this purchase, I also recommend them.

http://www.vintagevaultguitars.com/m-15-guild.aspx

 

[zulu]

I suspect that DNA testing will show that it once belonged to LEON SPHINKS!!!

Ahh, yes, I heard he was once knocked out by a starfire.

This guitar was on the website for "Vintage Vault" guitars for ages, I thought about buying it several times. Vintage Vault was maintained by Travis Ambrose, but all the inventory as far as I know was stored and administered through Bizarre Guitars. I have owned the wonderful Starfire II still listed as "for sale" on this page for a couple of years, which was actually a near NOS 1997 Westerly, not a "2005" as the ad suggests. Bizarre Guitars was great to deal with when I made this purchase, I also recommend them.

Very interesting, and thanks for the link!

I'm quite sure it will have the Starfire ink-stamp with a Roman I added after it.

Handwritten "Starfire I"

 

[zulu]

Update-

This week I recieved the Limited Edition Hardcover Guild Guitar Book from Hans Moust. A glorious book. If you're like me and 'late to the party' on this book, you really should pick it up.

Thanks so much, Hans. The replacement saddle is a perfect match.

I'll take bids on the vintage tooth. Some guy told me his cousin knew somebody who said he heard it was THE Alfred Dronge's tooth.

 

[coastie99]

I'll take bids on the vintage tooth. Some guy told me his cousin knew somebody who said he heard it was THE Alfred Dronge's tooth.

Might be the one that Alfred E Newman's missing !!

Congratulations on a very nice, and "interesting" guitar Zulu.

 

[zulu]

Thanks Coastie!

For anyone interested:
Here's the first recording I've done with it. It's a collaboration from another forum. Song, drums, bass and lead vocal came from two guys in Chicago, keys and backing vocals came from Houston, and the Starfire from here in Carson City. Kind of a dark jazzy-pop about disposing of a body.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8551919

 

[Default]

That's some grooves!