Vintage Guilds - When did they start building them heavier?

[tipp55]

My first good guitar was a 1973 Guild D-25. Long gone, but I have good memories.
Lately I'm thinking of looking for a vintage Guild D-35, 40 or 50 dread, preferably mid to late 60's.

I believe the Guild 12-strings were build a bit heavier from 1975 onwards, probably to address warranty problems and distorting tops, that sort of thing.

My question: Were the 6-string dreads similarly beefed up after 1975?

Are the earlier 60's guitars noticeably livlier and more responsive?

I'm familiar with the various changes C.F.Martin made over the years but I've only lately started exploring old Guild dreads. More GAS pangs imminent, I expect.

At least old Guilds are a bit more affordable than Martins

John.

 

[dreadnut]

Good question John, maybe someone with Westerly factory experience here can address that. I know my '76 D-25 is fairly heavy, but it rings like a bell My '98 DV-52 is lighter than the D-25. The neck on the D-25 is also a bit thicker.

The earlier D-25's were almost identical to the D-35, but with a mahogany top. The final iteration of the D-25 sometime in '74 may have been the heavier D-25, with a laminated 'hog back and a spruce top. This design was built for 25 years or more, at least the arched back and the same woods were used.

I think some of the nicest Guilds were made after Fender bought them and before they moved from Westerly, '95-'01 I believe. My '98 DV-52 sure is a keeper. If you can find a DV-52, they're about the best deal going in vintage guitars right now. They're every bit the guitar a Martin D-28 or D-35 is, and then some, and they can still be found for under $1,000!

 

[chazmo]

My 1971 F-50R is not overbuilt at all. My 1977 G-312 is somewhat heavy. My 1994 JF-30-12 is perhaps most tank-like and over-built, probably attributable to the maple neck (which is outstanding to look at). My 2006 F-512 is not overbuilt.

Interesting transitions over the years.

I know for a fact that the latest models from New Hartford have been weight-reduced in a number of ways.

 

[taabru45]

77 F50 R and 80 512-R....both just beautiful sounding/playing tanques..... :lol: Steffan

 

[GardMan]

I've discussed this a couple times, but it's easier to type it out than search for old threads. I currently have two early '70s dreads, my '71 D-44 and '72 D-35, and a few from '74 and later... and at one time had a '78 D-35. So, I can make some comparisons.

The '72 D-35 is the lightest of all, tipping the scales at just 4.25 lbs. The 44 is just a few onunces more (perhaps the repair to the endblock added an ounce or two?). In contrast, the later dreads all exceed five lbs, and several are just shy of 6 lbs. Tho' I never weighed the '78 D-35, it was noticeably heavier than the '72, probably in the 5.5 lb range. Based on this, I have always felt there was a design change in the mid '70s resulting in heavier dreads (the arched backs are a different breed... but my two also come in in the 5.5 lb range).

Some of this might come from changes in brace thickness and height... I think braces are narrower and shorter on my older two. But there were also changes in the bracing layout up towards the neck block, diagrammed here:

In direct comparisons, I would say my lightly-build '72 D-35 had a more resonant "open" sound (what some my call "woody") and better bass than the '78 D-35... but was not as loud. The '78 was brash and bright, with an "in your face" tone. That said, my later, heavily-built D-50, D-46, and D-55 are "cannons." I'd bet the '76 D-50 is the loudest, followed by the 46 and 55 (tied?). As I recall, those three are also the heaviest... the ash D-46 tips the scales at 5 lbs 15 oz... so there isn't a direct correlation between weight and volume.

So... I guess I'd say if you want a lightly built Guild dread, look for something in the late 60s-early 70s. I don't know when the transition occurs... sometime between '72 and '76, I'd say. But, you can get a great sounding dread from just about any time period!

Good luck in your quest!
Dave

 

[bluesypicky]

I know my '76 D-25 is fairly heavy, but it rings like a bell My '98 DV-52 is lighter than the D-25. The neck on the D-25 is also a bit thicker.

Funny... and interesting, as it highlights the differences brought forth by years / models.
My 72 flat back D25 is WAY lighter than my 98 DV52. Doesn't mean that the DV52 is heavy, but the D25 is just feather light, and matches very well Dave's description of his 72 D35 as far as the more resonant "open" sound and the "woody" character.
Also the neck is slightly narrower on the D25, the nut measuring 42mm versus 44mm on the DV52.

If you can find a DV-52, they're about the best deal going in vintage guitars right now. They're every bit the guitar a Martin D-28 or D-35 is, and then some, and they can still be found for under $1,000!

No statement can be any truer in my view... as a matter of fact, the arrival of my DV52, triggered the sale of 2 of my Martins including a D28, which it blew away.

 

[plaidseason]

One thing to keep in mind (and I know this is pretty obvious) is that apples to apples can only be done with the same or similar models.

None of this is scientific:

Guilds I have owned:

F44 - 1986 - pretty freakin' heavy but it has a heavy maple neck, back and sides.
DV4 - late nineties - the lightest factory guild I've ever owned. Mahogany is on the lighter side of guitar woods.

Formerly
DCE1- 1997 - the heaviest acoustic guitar I've ever held. Laminated mahogany sides, arched laminated mahogany back.
A25 - 1996 (I think) - pretty light but it was also 000 size.

In summary . . . arched backs are freakin' heavy, maples is also freakin' heavy.

-Chris

 

[adorshki]

The perception I have from a LOT of reading of threads is that there actually seems to be an evolution from "light guitars" (late 60'sto early '70's) to "heavy guitars" (mid to late '70's all the way up to early '90's), then back to "light guitars" 'til the end of Westerly production (2001). I consider my D25 to be a "featherweight". Lightest guitar I've ever owned.
BY way of counterpoint I have a friend with a first year (1987) JF30-12 which suffered from the dreaded bridge lift. I would consider this an early example of a "light build", just because the guitar IS pretty light, especially for a 12-string. I believe the archbacks in general are going to be lighter than the flatbacks due to less bracing (on the back).
If I remember correctly, the Gruhn-Walker era came in during about '84, I think this may have been the beginnings of the return to "light" guitars.

 

[West R Lee]

My DV72 is the lightest Guild dread I've ever played and she's a a mid 90's model.

West

 

[taabru45]

Guild Light..........goes with Bud Light.......when can we get together West? :lol: :lol: :lol: Steffan

 

[West R Lee]

Guild Light..........goes with Bud Light.......when can we get together West? :lol: :lol: :lol: Steffan

Sorry Steff, no Bud Light in this house, only Corona......though I have branched out a time or two lately to another great Mexican beer....Modelo.

West

 

[killdeer43]

Sorry Steff, no Bud Light in this house, only Corona......though I have branched out a time or two lately to another great Mexican beer....Modelo.

West

Would that be Negra Modelo? One of my recent favorites.
Local Mexican restaurant keeps Modelo and Corona cold and offers a frosted mug and slices of lime to make life that much better.

Gee, I'm thirsty, :wink:
Joe

 

[taabru45]

Sounds like a perfect ocassion to mix with a Guild Light too.....life at its best?....Almost? Steffan

 

[capnjuan]

I had a '66 F212 and a '80 F412: guitars that pre- and post-date the 1975 'boundary' year and the F412 was as ruggedly built as the F212. I also owned a '73 F30 .. the approximate size of the F212 but presumably made on the newer Westerly tooling. It's just an impression but I though that if the '66 F212 were reverse-engineered to be a '66 F30, that it would have been a more substantial guitar than the '73 F30.

 

[bluepen]

My 2008 D-50 (Tacoma) weighs 5.4 lbs.

 

[dreadnut]

So maybe it's the laminated mahogany that makes my D-25 weigh more? It also has a chunkier neck than my DV-52.

And thanks for the confirmation, bp, selling the D-28 is a pretty good testimonial to the DV-52!