Taylor's 6 hole, 12 string bridge?

[tommym]

This might be old news to some of you, but for me, this is new. Have any of you had any experience with Taylor's 6 hole, 12 string guitar bridge? The saddle looks a bit unconventional too. Its thickness is needed to set the string spacing.

I love my old mid 90s Taylor 555 12 strings, but this?

I found this image on the following link:

The Big Review: Taylor Builder’s Edition 652ce

With compact dimensions, softened edges and reverse stringing, this is no ordinary 12-string.

guitar.com

Tommy

 

[chazmo]

Yeah, that's their recent/new Expression System bridge. The 3 holes with (presumably) Allen bolts are part of the system, and perhaps take up too much space for an add'l 6 pins. Or, maybe this is a choice they have. Seems like it'd work fine to me given that they've slotted the saddle. Not sure about how the slots affect the compensation.

 

[wileypickett]

The idea of six bridge-pin holes for a 12-string guitar was first done by Alvarez, I believe, first introduced maybe 30 years or so ago? It was a short-lived experiment -- not sure why, but I'm not aware of them having offered that option for a decade or two now.

The wrinkle here is that Taylor has notched string grooves into the saddle (like with a nut) AND they've compensated their saddles. These are significant improvements, IMO.

While it solves a couple problems, it creates another (teensy) one.

The problem it solves is that it keeps the strings in closer proximity than is possible with bridge pins, because the back strings on a 12-string have to go around the front bridge pins before they pass over the saddle, which means they can only get so close and no closer.

(Some people have been getting around that problem for decades by sanding flat the sides of the part of the knob on top of their bridge-pins that the back string goes around, which accomplishes the same thing.)

The problem it creates is that if you break your octave G string (a common complaint), in order to replace it you have to deal with the main G string occupying the same bridge pin-hole, i.e., you have to deal with two strings in order to replace one.

Cool idea though.

And with a lot of things Taylor comes up with, other makers sometimes follow their lead. Compesnated 12-string saddles may be the future.

 

[tommym]

I just noticed in the image above that the octave strings are situated below the base/bass strings?

Tommy

 

[Brucebubs]

I just noticed in the image above that the octave strings are situated below the base/bass strings?

Tommy

Well spotted - I wonder if they're all like that now?

I do know they made a very subtle change on their 12 string bridges - they went from drilling the bridge pin holes in a dished pattern to drilling them in a straight line - so you can't replace an older bridge with a newer one.

 

[FNG]

He mentioned it in the video that they were strung like an electric 12 string.

 

[SFIV1967]

Yeah, that's their recent/new Expression System bridge. The 3 holes with (presumably) Allen bolts are part of the system, and perhaps take up too much space for an add'l 6 pins.

Ralf

 

[wileypickett]

The other advantage is that both sets of strings have steep string break angles. Typically the set at the back have a "softer" angle break than the ones in the front.

 

[Brucebubs]

Looked up the Taylor 562ce which has this 6 pin set up - the pictures on Taylor's listing show the strings in the conventional set up with octaves above primary string.

Taylor Guitars

Taylor Guitars is a leading manufacturer of acoustic and electric guitars. As well you can build to order via our custom guitar program. Taylor guitars are widely considered among the best-sounding and easiest to play guitars in the world.

www.taylorguitars.com

 

[wileypickett]

I’ve tried 12s set up with octaves first and main strings first. I prefer octaves first. Sounds more 12-string-y.

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

The reversed octaves are Ric style.

 

[tommym]

Must be an even tighter fit with the new V-bracing too.

Tommy

Ralf

 

[chazmo]

The reversed octaves are Ric style.

Should also be noted that Doyle Dykes liked them reversed as well and (I think) his sig. model Guild 12 has them that way (Ric-style, that is).

 

[tommym]

Does anyone know if the bridge pins for this new bridge design are of a proprietary design? I am still not clear on how they are mounting two strings down into one hole.

Tommy

 

[Neal]

That bridge plate is HUGE!

 

[Oscar Stern]

This might be old news to some of you, but for me, this is new. Have any of you had any experience with Taylor's 6 hole, 12 string guitar bridge? The saddle looks a bit unconventional too. Its thickness is needed to set the string spacing.

I love my old mid 90s Taylor 555 12 strings, but this?

I found this image on the following link:

The Big Review: Taylor Builder’s Edition 652ce

With compact dimensions, softened edges and reverse stringing, this is no ordinary 12-string.

guitar.com

Tommy

BTW I noticed that this Guitar has the Low Octave strings strung before the high octave strings like on a Rickebacker 12.

 

[chazmo]

Oscar, that is true on all (I think) Taylor 12-strings. AFAIK, Guild and Rickenbacker are the only two (that I know of) that routinely reverse the pinning. Some folks think that contributes to Guild's 12-string presence. Martin even copied that (once) with the Grand J12-40 model, which was very clearly designed with an eye toward the Guild F-512.

 

[WaltW]

I purchased a Taylor 362E from Sweetwater in September. It is a special order from Taylor, there is no cutaway, which I thought interesting since Taylor seems to make almost every instrument that way these days. The wood is Sapele which I've read is a type of Mahogany . I like the lighter volume and less bass from the smaller concert size compared to my 1980 G312SB Dread.
The string arrangement on it is "conventional?" with the octave strings first in each placement and the saddle is slotted to control spacing. The 4 pictures are just for the record for the instrument. The third and fourth pictures are an attempt to answer a few of the questions asked. There is nothing different about the bridge pin that I can see. The top groove fits a standard winder slot and the hole engagement surface is round. The bridge hole has a slightly deeper slot to accommodate both strings and the octave string is the first installed in the slot for all six locations. I would imagine that the saddle slots are tightly controlled for breakover location. With Taylor's expertise for Computer controlled design and machining that the quality is easier to maintain.
I hope that these picks answer the questions asked.

 

[Oscar Stern]

Oscar, that is true on all (I think) Taylor 12-strings. AFAIK, Guild and Rickenbacker are the only two (that I know of) that routinely reverse the pinning. Some folks think that contributes to Guild's 12-string presence. Martin even copied that (once) with the Grand J12-40 model, which was very clearly designed with an eye toward the Guild F-512.

The Taylor 642ce does have the Low Octave Strings before the High Octave Strings exactly like a Rickenbacker 12 string Guitar.

 

[chazmo]

The Taylor 642ce does have the Low Octave Strings before the High Octave Strings exactly like a Rickenbacker 12 string Guitar.

Oscar, I made a mistake.... Probably didn't have enough coffee.

I was referring to the string pinning of the 12-string courses, where the low octave string is pinned closer to the saddle than the high octave string. My comment earlier should not have included Rickenbacker in that -- they reverse the strings in the courses such that string #12 is the low-E octave string not the high-E. So, I realize my comment is confusing (and wrong).

Guild has reversed the courses too, but only on the Doyle Dykes signature 12s, if I recall correctly.

Anyway, thanks for correcting me. Bleh. More coffee!