Tacoma F50R Binding Issues

[Dadaist]

Stopped by a local shop, a Guild Dealer, that had advertised a Tacoma F50R for sale. The guitar played very, very nice.....everything we've come to expect in Guild's top of the line Jumbo.

The only problem, was that sections of the outer finish of the binding appears to have "flaked" off of both sides of the upper bout and portions of the neck. It left an almost transparent look to what was left.
Has anyone every experienced this before? The guitar played and sounded great, but for that kind of money.....yeah, the cosmetics would be a deal breaker. I could hopefully get a hefty discount, but that's a bit too much "mojo" and I'd be concerned about binding issues in the future.

Anyone see anything like this before on a Guild or anything else? Any suggestions on how to repair this or would you have to rebind the entire guitar?

David

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

I have seen this on a couple of Westerly Guilds.
It appears that the lacquer is chipping off.
The lacquer seems to have become very brittle and will chip or flake off if it's touched too hard.
It's only the binding that does this.
I have no idea why though.

 

[Dadaist]

I have seen this on a couple of Westerly Guilds.
It appears that the lacquer is chipping off.
The lacquer seems to have become very brittle and will chip or flake off if it's touched too hard.
It's only the binding that does this.
I have no idea why though.

What surprised me, is that this is only a five year old guitar.

 

[chazmo]

David,

Tacoma did experience some finishing issues in their run. Is this a new (NOS) guitar you're talking about?

I'm not sure what you're describing though... Is it purely that the lacquer has flaked off, or has the binding itself changed color and flaked. If the latter, then there's a serious problem.

 

[Dadaist]

David,

Tacoma did experience some finishing issues in their run. Is this a new (NOS) guitar you're talking about?

I'm not sure what you're describing though... Is it purely that the lacquer has flaked off, or has the binding itself changed color and flaked. If the latter, then there's a serious problem.

Chazmo,
This is a five year old, previously owned, natural, F50R. If it was just a case of the clear lacquer chipping, or flaking, that wouldn't be as much of an issue and could be repaired. The problem here is the "white" in the binding is coming off leaving a clear, almost translucent, plastic. As if the color had been chemically removed.

After I brought this glaring issue to the young sales rep's attention, he took the guitar back to the in-house luthier. A few minutes later, he walks back and says,.."...It's because the previous owner had a lot of acidity in his skin....that's the reason it's happening..."

Now this isn't, as they say, "my first time at the rodeo..", so I just look at the guy.
I've owned a number of guitars over the years. My first quality guitar was a '43 Gibson LG2 which at the time cost the princely sum of $100, so you can surmise that I could, technically, qualify as this young man's grandfather.

Fortunately, I had had several cups of coffee and fueled by caffeine and mild irritation (I had spent over an hour driving to this place,) I respond by observing that, maybe, just maybe, that might be the case, but wouldn't that also mean that the lacquer on the guitar neck, also be coming off? He didn't have an answer, and just kind of stared into his reflection in a nearby Martin hanging on the wall.

The discoloration is limited to just the binding, not any other section of the guitar.

David

 

[chazmo]

David,

Yeah, bad answer from the sales guy. That's a defect, clearly, in the binding. Think you could post a few pix?

But, that said, without the original owner's warrantee, no one's obligated to address the problem. That's one of the best reasons, of course, to buy new.

I think what's disturbing about this is that if this were Taylor, for example, you'd almost certainly get some attention directly from the factory with a quick phone call. With a Guild, it's now Fender corporate that will point you right back to your dealer. I honestly believe they want to address this (particularly since they want to see Guild as a premier brand in the biz), but it's slow going.

I'll try to dig up some info for you later, David. We have met a few contacts within the organization who care about things like this... I'll try to get you in touch and maybe help you navigate the bureaucracy.

 

[Dadaist]

David,

Yeah, bad answer from the sales guy. That's a defect, clearly, in the binding. Think you could post a few pix?

But, that said, without the original owner's warrantee, no one's obligated to address the problem. That's one of the best reasons, of course, to buy new.

I think what's disturbing about this is that if this were Taylor, for example, you'd almost certainly get some attention directly from the factory with a quick phone call. With a Guild, it's now Fender corporate that will point you right back to your dealer. I honestly believe they want to address this (particularly since they want to see Guild as a premier brand in the biz), but it's slow going.

I'll try to dig up some info for you later, David. We have met a few contacts within the organization who care about things like this... I'll try to get you in touch and maybe help you navigate the bureaucracy.

Unfortunately, I think I was caught off-guard and didn't take any photos. It's an hour to this shop, one of the premier guitar stores in Southern California.

For whatever it's worth, this guitar had been taken in on trade, their guitar tech had looked it over, and I was told that the night before it had a set of new strings and was.."near mint".

I was ready, if it checked out to make a Guild trade, plus some cash.
What's disturbing, is that after I finished looking at some new Guilds (very nice, but c'mon
for that kind of money...$3k plus.....it's going to take several years to open up and I'm a few years beyond fifty.....hopefully, my hands and fingers won't have problems, but who knows?) I went back just to look at it one more time before I left the store, just to see if I made the right decision. Well, they put it back up on the wall with the same pricey hang tag. Not the kind of integrity you'd want in a Guild Dealer, and I've bought several instruments over the years from these guys.

You're probably right about this kind of problem and Fender Corp. Whereas Taylor only needs to deal with guitars that carry their name, FMIC, unfortunately, is a multi-brand, international company controlled by many layers and lot of Guys In Suits. Leo Fender has gone to that great jam session in the sky, but Bob Taylor (may he have many years of good health...) is still with us. Hopefully, when they bought out Ovation and acquired the old New Hartford factory, they'll stay put at least for a while, unless they decide to move again because they purchased some other instrument manufacturer.

David

 

[cjd-player]

Lacquer flaking off of the white plastic binding was an issue with some Tacoma Guilds. They even mentioned that problem during the factory tour at New Hartford. I can't remember what they said about addressing the problem on the new Guilds. I want to say I think they changed the type of plastic used for the binding, but I don't remember for sure. It's not an issue on the guitars with ivoroid binding.

I had that issue on a Tacoma D-55 I used to own. Just two years old. The lacquer flaked off of the binding along the fretboard. It started when I bumped the binding a couple of times with a slide.
It's not an expensive repair, but it is a pain in the behind to have happen.

I'd make them have it repaired before you buy the guitar. But they should take the lacquer off of all of the fretboard binding for the repair.

 

[Dadaist]

Lacquer flaking off of the white plastic binding was an issue with some Tacoma Guilds. They even mentioned that problem during the factory tour at New Hartford. I can't remember what they said about addressing the problem on the new Guilds. I want to say I think they changed the type of plastic used for the binding, but I don't remember for sure. It's not an issue on the guitars with ivoroid binding.

I had that issue on a Tacoma D-55 I used to own. Just two years old. The lacquer flaked off of the binding along the fretboard. It started when I bumped the binding a couple of times with a slide.
It's not an expensive repair, but it is a pain in the behind to have happen.

I'd make them have it repaired before you buy the guitar. But they should take the lacquer off of all of the fretboard binding for the repair.

Are you talking about the clear lacquer? I'm talking about the clear lacquer and the white color in the binding.
You mention that you don't own that particular D-55, and though this F50R was otherwise a great instrument, for that kind of money it was a deal breaker. I don't think it would be acceptable on a GAD instrument, let alone one of Guild's high-end guitars.

 

[cjd-player]

Are you talking about the clear lacquer? I'm talking about the clear lacquer and the white color in the binding.
You mention that you don't own that particular D-55, and though this F50R was otherwise a great instrument, for that kind of money it was a deal breaker. I don't think it would be acceptable on a GAD instrument, let alone one of Guild's high-end guitars.

Yes, just the clear lacquer flaking off. No white.

Sounds like the binding itself may be splitting apart on that one. :shock: :shock:

Maybe that was already repaired once, and some fool used paint, and now the repair is failing.

 

[Dadaist]

Are you talking about the clear lacquer? I'm talking about the clear lacquer and the white color in the binding.
You mention that you don't own that particular D-55, and though this F50R was otherwise a great instrument, for that kind of money it was a deal breaker. I don't think it would be acceptable on a GAD instrument, let alone one of Guild's high-end guitars.

Yes, just the clear lacquer flaking off. No white.

Sounds like the binding itself may be splitting apart on that one. :shock: :shock:

Maybe that was already repaired once, and some fool used paint, and now the repair is failing.

Now that you mention it, I recall that it did look like white paint chipping off of plastic. If it was it was a great color match, as it was identical to the rest of the binding. But, that said, all of the binding may have been painted.

Again, what's totally unacceptable is that this Guild Dealer is charging full retail on the guitar. I mentioned to the young salesman that as far as I was concerned, his $1600 F50 just became a $1000 F50, and all I got was this "Deer In The Headlights" expression in return. My guess is that some uninformed potential Guild owner will come in off the street and buy it...thinking that this was just due to normal wear and tear.

Two weeks later He or She will be posting a question on this forum wondering if all Guilds have this issue, and what can they do about it.

 

[cjd-player]

My guess is that some uninformed potential Guild owner will come in off the street and buy it...thinking that this was just due to normal wear and tear.
Two weeks later He or She will be posting a question on this forum wondering if all Guilds have this issue, and what can they do about it.

Buyer beware...

A sucker born every minute ..

etc, etc, etc...

 

[Dadaist]

My guess is that some uninformed potential Guild owner will come in off the street and buy it...thinking that this was just due to normal wear and tear.
Two weeks later He or She will be posting a question on this forum wondering if all Guilds have this issue, and what can they do about it.

Buyer beware...

A sucker born every minute ..

etc, etc, etc...

Hopefully, any potential buyer would check out LTG or another acoustic forum beforehand, and make or not make that kind of purchase with their eyes open. At least if they did, demand that they take off a minimum of 25%, or more of the price....

Yeah, it's always a buyer beware situation....but, we've all made purchases over the years that two weeks and a little research or a "friend" bringing to our attention why this was not such a good one. I know I have....