starfire: vintage or NS

[upsideDownNBackwards]

My apologies if this has been covered but I couldn't find the info I was looking for.

I've decided I want to try a starfire 3 or 4. I've been impressed with the comments here and the reviews on the web.

I'm looking for some guidance from all of you regarding vintage or new. I see many people here who have bought the NS guitars say Guild did a good job capturing the vintage feel. On the other hand, vintage fans say the old ones are truly first class instruments that rival the best guitars ever. My concern is getting a vintage guitar that can't be made right. I live near Toronto and there are no vintage Guilds around at present. I would have to find something in the States and get it shipped to a relative or take a weekend trip to a shop over the border. Guitar center lists them in their offerings and they will ship to a given store and elderly has a few. All of this means I have to take a bit of a leap of faith and will have little recourse if the guitar isn't sound.

A new starfire would clearly be less risk.

So my questions are:
a) Is it worth the hassle of dealing with 40-50 year old instrument?
b)If so, what era produced the best starfires?
c)Would a Westerly starfire from the last couple decades rival a 60 or 70s one?

 

[AcornHouse]

It's more complicated than just NS or vintage. Different era Starfire or markedly different. The Hoboken era ones (my preference) are lighter and have a thinner neck; they have a woodier sound. The Westerly ones are built closer to modern ones with a heavier finish, a larger neck and nut width.

I cant speak on the NS ones, which also have different flavors now that they have stoptail versions.

Its hard to tell which is best for you. If you're in a major area, check the stores to see which ones you can try out.

 

[GAD]

70s and prior Starfires have tiny necks.

For my money, the 1990s era Starfires are the best semi-hollows and semi-hollows out there. Love 'em to death.

A NS Starfire will no doubt be a great guitar based on the other NS Guilds I've owned, but they cut some not-so-obvious corners in the name of cost. I've never seen or played a 90s Guild that wasn't supurb.

 

[AcornHouse]

70s and prior Starfires have tiny necks.

.

I likes 'em slender.

As you can see, upside... personal preference comes into play with the various flavors of Starfires. Vintage ones are worth it, if that's where your taste goes. They may need some extra upkeep to get them into shape, but so will all guitars, eventually.

 

[GAD]

I should have stated that if you like the slender necks then the 70s Guilds are incredible. I love the '70s Guilds. I just don't like the necks.

 

[powerwagonjohn]

I have a 1973 SF IV and a GSR Starfire along with a 2009 ES-345. All 3 have their own vibe and tone. But I can't imagine selling either Starfire. The 1973 has something the others don't. I would call the 73 a Imperial while the 345 is a caddie and the GSR Starfire a Viper but then I am a Dodge man. Thanks John

 

[jp]

I don't think all of the Hobokens have thinner necks. I think the thinner necks were more common after 1965. All the vintage Hoboken Guilds I've played from '57-'64 have had slightly more substantial necks.

That's just from my experience, though.

 

[parker_knoll]

also, the pickups change from the Dearmonds (early '60s) to the little buckers (mid '60s to ?early '70s) to the full size buckers

my opinion, having played quite a few and owned a few is, VINTAGE BUT PLAY IT FIRST OR SELL IT ON IF IT'S NOT WORKING FOR YOU

To answer your Qs from my opinion...

So my questions are:
a) Is it worth the hassle of dealing with 40-50 year old instrument?
b)If so, what era produced the best starfires?
c)Would a Westerly starfire from the last couple decades rival a 60 or 70s one?

a) there is not necessarily any hassle at all. I had a 1966 that was very hard to play. I had a 1960 that was like new, perfect, like butter, and in perfect condition too
b) as you can see above, it varies according to opinion. Personally I like Dearmonds and LB-1 so would go '60s, plus '60s guitars are easier to sell
c) yes in certain ways, but heavier and different woods. I LOVE the way the thin laminate of the 60s starfires comes alive in your hands with a good volume out of the amp with good sustain and controllable feedback, and I like the tone from the mahogany/maple/mahogany laminate they used.

Honestly, just try a few. I have also bought sight unseen on ebay quite a few times and had no trouble selling on instruments i didn't like. So it depends on your notion of risk

 

[Walter Broes]

I don't think all of the Hobokens have thinner necks. I think the thinner necks were more common after 1965. All the vintage Hoboken Guilds I've played from '57-'64 have had slightly more substantial necks.

That's just from my experience, though.

I have owned a 50/60 X175 that had a nice full neck shape not unlike a typical 50's Gibson guitar. Not huge, not small at all, substantial but certainly not "whoa! BIG!". I have a '60 CE100D that's almost the same, although the nut width is on the narrower side - something I don't mind, but people with big hands might. Kinda feels like a telecaster, the string spacing at the nut.

I have a '61 Starfire III that has a thin, slender, small neck. It has a very hand-friendly shape, but it IS slim, and the nut width is on the smaller side too.

As for the OP's question : the NS guitars are very nice, especially for the relatively low price. They're not exact reissues, but they're modeled on the 60's Hoboken guitars as far as body shapes, hardware, and pickups go.

That said, in the world of vintage guitars, Guilds are some of the only high quality guitars left that sell for "normal" prices. As in "you'd pay about as much for a the brand new made in USA equivalent, or less even". I have not played a lot of 60's Guild guitars I didn't like, and quite a few that I really loved.

 

[parker_knoll]

I have a '61 Starfire III that has a thin, slender, small neck. It has a very hand-friendly shape, but it IS slim, and the nut width is on the smaller side too.

oh, beaut. with Dearmonds?

 

[shihan]

I want to echo GAD. My SF-4 is a mid 90's model, and It's a very fine instrument. Perfect (for me) neck, plays like butter, and sounds fabulous. I took a leap of faith and bought it off ebay; it was as described, basically a new guitar with the plastic still on the pickguard.
A late model USA SF can be found for not much more than the NS models. The resale value of an American made model makes this a no brainer for me.

 

[Walter Broes]

oh, beaut. with Dearmonds?

 

[Quantum Strummer]

I like the older Starfires for the reasons mentioned: thinner plywood (err…laminates); woodier, more acoustic sound when plugged in; "anti-hum" and DeArmond pickups. I seem to be in the Goldilocks zone when it comes to hand size. Narrower necks aren't too narrow nor wider ones too wide. Slim or fat necks…same thing.

OTOH both my NS Guilds are keepers. I got my NS Aristocrat in part because it has such a different sound & feel compared with my old Bluesbird.

There's nothing like playing a guitar that's been a guitar for a long time and likes being a guitar. But breaking in a new guitar has its pleasures too.

-Dave-

 

[dbirchett]

First of all, Walter, that is a gorgeous S-III. Simply stunning.

Next, let me offer a caveat that I haven't played a Guild from the 60's or 70's since the 60's or 70's so I am going by memory on this.

To upsideDownNBackwards, the original poster, let me say that you really can't go very wrong with any Starfire III or IV. There was no "down period" for Guild, except when Fender started designing their own pickups and even then, it was only the pickups that were the problem and that can be remedied (as I did). As GAD indicated, the guitars from the various periods do differ somewhat from each other and you have to decide which you prefer.

My Guilds were from Westerly and my Starfire 5 (or V if you prefer) was one of the last ones. It is a really great guitar. Sounded pretty good before a pickup swap and now sounds superb. The earlier Starfires I remember as being great as well. My first guitar teacher (back in the mid-60s) loved Guilds and always tried to steer me that way. Only took me 40 years to come around. I have played a current Starfire III and was extremely impressed by it as well. The problem biggest problem with the new ones is that you can usually find a Westerly or Corona-built one for the same price or maybe even a little less. As much as I like the new ones, I would go for the older one first, if it was my decision. Anyway, I am sure that whichever you go with, it will be a great choice.

 

[parker_knoll]

super clean as well

there's a similar one on Reverb right now but it's too much money

EDT: just noticed the block inlays, what's that all about?

 

[parker_knoll]

Mine, no longer with me, and only these low res photos to remember her by

 

[Walter Broes]

super clean as well

there's a similar one on Reverb right now but it's too much money

EDT: just noticed the block inlays, what's that all about?

Nah, not super clean, it's a refin. And up close, it's a "close to pro" refin, but not quite. That said, I only paid about $1000 for it, and it was all original except the finish. (I put the TOM bridge on there, still have the original Bigsby bridge too) It's a great guitar!

the blocks : it's a "special". They made some like that, LTG member Billy D. Light has a killer one, also black with the blocks, and Deluxe Kolb tuners, even fancier!

 

[kakerlak]

Nah, not super clean, it's a refin. And up close, it's a "close to pro" refin, but not quite. That said, I only paid about $1000 for it, and it was all original except the finish. (I put the TOM bridge on there, still have the original Bigsby bridge too) It's a great guitar!

the blocks : it's a "special". They made some like that, LTG member Billy D. Light has a killer one, also black with the blocks, and Deluxe Kolb tuners, even fancier!

Doesn't somebody around here have a SF I/II/III with Travis-model-style stars?

 

[hansmoust]

Mine, no longer with me, and only these low res photos to remember her by

That's a real early Starfire. Most of the ones that I've seen were in the high-13xxx serial number range and were completed during 1960.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[parker_knoll]

yep. sold only to pay moving costs to the least chilled Buddhist I've run into. I wonder where it is now.

I've been a bit shocked to see early Starfires getting torn up by the ebay guys. I thought they were rare enough and valuable enough to escape that