Starfire Questions :)

[adorshki]

the only thing throwing me off is the studs. if its after market its pretty detailed to do something like that? there's also a toggle installed between the volume /tone knobs.. so who the heck knows now

Phase-shifted stereo in any combination of pickups including "none".

 

[fronobulax]

I think the guitar in the OP has been modified and not at the factory. The PU toggle has been replaced with a knob. The studs are pretty trivial to find and install and if it is a rotary switch they are an easy to visually indicate which setting has been selected. Knobs don't look like what I expect with a G shield and/or numbers.

I don't think we are going to know what the controls actually do without having it in hand but I am confident that the mod was not done at the factory.

 

[jeffmac]

Finally received today . Looks like everything was modified ( somewhat tasteful)
Tuners were swapped but fortunately they used the same holes . Seems they kept the original heads just the gears changed.
Serial appears to be from 1961 .
Can’t tell but looks like it might have been red finished that was removed for natural ?
Bigsby is vintage but I don’t original ? I’m not knowledgeable on bigsbys. There’s a hole in between the mount you can see .
The label inside is matching of the headstock but it’s got a bracket to hold the rotary controller so strange it just has iii written in ?
The knobs all feel old but original prob not I guess . No studs around the rotary just indents which make sense .

I knew all this mostly before I bought it so not bummed by any means and this guitar is amazing to play . Feels really good and responds exactly how I need it to. It reminds me of the x150 I had in feel but better cause the body’s thinner and access to higher frets is easier . The electronics sound great but are a mess under the hood and need some organizing . Still figuring what tones produced with the rotary and toggle switch . Overall I’m super happy and once again guilds just don’t disappoint.

 

[Norrissey]

Very cool! Thanks for posting. That is awesome that the guitar plays and sounds good. Looks pretty nice too! Was probably a red guitar originally like you say. That Bigsby doesn't look factory and that Roman Numeral III on the label does look odd. I wonder if this is one of the guitars that @hansmoust was talking about in "The Guild Guitar Book" that was a Starfire II that was converted to a Starfire III by a naughty distributor.

 

[jeffmac]

Isn’t it strange how it doesn’t have starfire on the label inside too ?

Just curious here but how would a factory bigsby look different from afterwards ?

Thanks !

 

[Norrissey]

Just curious here but how would a factory bigsby look different from afterwards ?

I'm not an expert on early '60s Starfire Bigsbies but I would have expected it to look more fitted like the Guildsby on the Guitar on the link below. Also I would have expected the finish on the strap button to match but who knows?

1964 Guild Starfire III Vintage Thinline Hollowbody Cherry Red w/ HB-1, Bigsby & Case, Hoboken | Reverb

Up for sale, a 1964 Guild Starfire III in excellent condition and in perfect working order, complete with the original hardshell case. 100% original save for a professional refret, this Starfire III is one of the first to feature Guild's HB-1 humbuckers, a running change from 1963-64, as the cata...

reverb.com

 

[jeffmac]

Got it . I’ve looked all over the web for starfires from 60, 61 and found only one pic with an actual marked bigsby. Haha label doesn’t help either . ??
I took the pickups out and they are dimarzios and not sure what the heck controller for the rotary .

 

[llmonty]

Not 100% sure from the serial number - but could this one be the very next one made - #15350 - I recalled this very early one also had the single bound body vs. the latter and more common double bound. Congrats on your new (old) Guild!

Guild Starfire III Cherry 1961 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

 

[Rocky]

Why put a super distortion pickup in a guitar that’s already prone to feedback ?

High rates of drug abuse in the 70's? Ted Nugent emulation? Maybe both?

People don't always think modifications through enough, as the aforementioned thread shows.

It's also possible one of the pickups is a DiMarzio "Dual Sound" which is/was a Super Distortion with four-conductor wiring. The recommended wiring was for series/parallel wiring of the pickup for a less hot/muddy sound while retaining hum rejection.

 

[Rocky]

Oh, and those are probably "PAF" models. Super Distortions had 12 allen wrench adjustable poles, while the PAF had six screws and six slugs. This website seems to indicate they were made between 1976 and 1981.

 

[jeffmac]

Not 100% sure from the serial number - but could this one be the very next one made - #15350 - I recalled this very early one also had the single bound body vs. the latter and more common double bound. Congrats on your new (old) Guild!

Guild Starfire III Cherry 1961 | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

reverb.com

looks like that one on the headstock is 16350 and the label inside is 15350 . How cool would that be though if it were .

 

[llmonty]

looks like that one on the headstock is 16350 and the label inside is 15350 . How cool would that be though if it were .

Interestingly the label has the random III as well. I read the headstock as 15350 too, but it was a little hard to read. These two guitars had very different lives. I think yours might have more interesting stories to tell!

 

[jeffmac]

Oh, and those are probably "PAF" models. Super Distortions had 12 allen wrench adjustable poles, while the PAF had six screws and six slugs. This website seems to indicate they were made between 1976 and 1981.

Thanks for that . You’re right pafs not super distortion seems 1975 -76 was the braided wire . Very happy bout that

 

[jeffmac]

Interestingly the label has the random III as well. I read the headstock as 15350 too, but it was a little hard to read. These two guitars had very different lives. I think yours might have more interesting stories to tell!

Thankfully it appears the refin was done a long time ago and aged very nicely minus the nail polish design I’ll have to figure a way to remove that .

 

[Harp Tail]

Congratulations jeffmac, and welcome to the club.

You're right - Guilds don't disappoint, and vintage DiMarzios don't either.
I have a set of same period Dual Sound (factory mounted) on a vintage El Degas ES 335, and the PUs are one of the reasons - the other being my proverbial laziness - I haven't sold that yet.

In my opinion, early bound top Starfires with DeArmonds are among the most elegant guitars ever - have fun with yours and its augmented "firepower".

 

[jeffmac]

Thank you ! Yeah im planing to have a lot of fun with this one . I need to ease up on my picking hand as the dynamics are stronger it seems with a full hollow . I also found they reissued the sta-tite Grovers. I’ll swap those back and im gonna go back to a 3 way toggle . The wiring is very messy .

 

[jp]

Noting that the rotary switch on the top horn has 6 positions, is there a chance that it might be a Varitone switch a la Gibson? If you see a whole mess of caps soldered onto the pot, it may be that. There have, of course, been aftermarket mockups with small PCB boards instead.

Otherwise, as you probably guessed, it's a way to switch between various PU combinations, series, vs parallel, phase switching, coil tapping, etc.

 

[Harp Tail]

Thank you ! Yeah im planing to have a lot of fun with this one . I need to ease up on my picking hand as the dynamics are stronger it seems with a full hollow . I also found they reissued the sta-tite Grovers. I’ll swap those back and im gonna go back to a 3 way toggle . The wiring is very messy .

You're quite welcome. Sta-tites do live up to their name, and truly whoever "upgraded" the tuners on your SF was not thinking straight.

On the other hand, I like the refinish - "Brown-fires" and "Chestnut-fires" are one of my many kinks.

 

[jeffmac]

Noting that the rotary switch on the top horn has 6 positions, is there a chance that it might be a Varitone switch a la Gibson? If you see a whole mess of caps soldered onto the pot, it may be that. There have, of course, been aftermarket mockups with small PCB boards instead.

Otherwise, as you probably guessed, it's a way to switch between various PU combinations, series, vs parallel, phase switching, coil tapping, etc.

Could be ? First position was off completely and 2nd seemed to be neck pickup but after that no sound and the little toggle only turned the power off in the second position ? I’m pretty sure wires came loose .

 

[jeffmac]

You're quite welcome. Sta-tites do live up to their name, and truly whoever "upgraded" the tuners on your SF was not thinking straight.

On the other hand, I like the refinish - "Brown-fires" and "Chestnut-fires" are one of my many kinks.

Yes ! The fact it’s more natural is very nice indeed for my style and I don’t worry as much about being careful not to bump it . Good to know about the sta-tites. Also saw it’s 18 to 1 gear ratio on the newer ones. Definitely didn’t want to drill new holes and I’m so thankful the previous owner used the same holes as that’s not always the case