Starfire IV Replacement Pickups?

[gkoelling]

Hi,

I have a 2000 Westerly Starfire IV. I'm very happy with how it plays and have no argument with the tone but I'm not real experienced with humbuckers.

Has anyone improved the tone of their recent SF with a pickup swap? If so, what did you use?


Thanks

 

[Qvart]

Hi,

I have a 2000 Westerly Starfire IV. I'm very happy with how it plays and have no argument with the tone but I'm not real experienced with humbuckers.

Has anyone improved the tone of their recent SF with a pickup swap? If so, what did you use?


Thanks

I'm guessing yours came with the Fender-made p'ups. Talk to GAD about those. He definitely has an opinion.

Vintage Guild HB-1's would be ideal, but may require some routing. Maybe the Seymour Duncan-
made Guild p'ups would fit and be an improvement. As for other brands, wait for a response from someone with more experience. :lol:

 

[gkoelling]

Thanks, Qvart

GAD gave me his opinion last year when I bought the guitar. :wink:

I wasn't aware the pickups weren't standard size. Is it the originals that are different?

 

[Qvart]

Thanks, Qvart

GAD gave me his opinion last year when I bought the guitar. :wink:

I wasn't aware the pickups weren't standard size. Is it the originals that are different?

I'm pretty sure the Guild vintage p'ups are bigger. Deeper maybe.

 

[billy budapest]

I could possibly be talked into selling a set of 70's era HB-1s with chrome covers. They have been wax-potted and been re-wired for coil-splitting capability, so you could really soup-up your Starfire!

To my ears, HB-1s are amongst the most stunning humbuckers out there!

 

[GAD]

Thanks, Qvart

GAD gave me his opinion last year when I bought the guitar. :wink:

I wasn't aware the pickups weren't standard size. Is it the originals that are different?

Hmm.. .did I say that THEY SUCK?

I replaced the pickups in my Westerly SFIV with custom wound monsters from WCR. Here is my extensive review of WCR pickups: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/07/13/wcr-pickups-review/

They're pricey at around $300/pair, but they really changed the character of the guitar from meh to wow!

The pickups in a 2000 SF4 are standard sized. It's the vintage HB1s that are bigger. You can't put vintage HB1s in a modern SF, but you can do the reverse (but who would want to?)

Now the SD1s from the mid 90s, they're pretty nice. WAY better than the Fender junk, and they maintain the cool HB1 look in many cases.

 

[gkoelling]

Thanks, Qvart

GAD gave me his opinion last year when I bought the guitar. :wink:

I wasn't aware the pickups weren't standard size. Is it the originals that are different?

Hmm.. .did I say that THEY SUCK?

I replaced the pickups in my Westerly SFIV with custom wound monsters from WCR. Here is my extensive review of WCR pickups: http://www.gad.net/Blog/2010/07/13/wcr-pickups-review/

They're pricey at around $300/pair, but they really changed the character of the guitar from meh to wow!

The pickups in a 2000 SF4 are standard sized. It's the vintage HB1s that are bigger. You can't put vintage HB1s in a modern SF, but you can do the reverse (but who would want to?)

Now the SD1s from the mid 90s, they're pretty nice. WAY better than the Fender junk, and they maintain the cool HB1 look in many cases.

You know, I think your comments did reference the poor tone, or sucking, of the stock pickups. :mrgreen:

What were SD1s? Just curious...is SD the same as Seymour Duncan? If they were Duncan's, is there a Duncan model comparable to the SD1?

OK, so it sounds good to me now but there's room for improvement.

Are the pots, caps and switch keepers?

Oh, this thing is effortless to play. I have arthritis in my hands and 10's on it and could probably go 11's or even 12's and be fine.

Thanks

 

[firestar]

Interesting thread....I have a late Corona production Guild Starfire 4 and it's a real fine quality instrument only perhaps let down as an electric guitar by the Fender made Guild HB1 pickups which while not poor and certainly above average if not even quite good are not as great as the legendary original Guild HB1 pickups.
The Fender made pickups are standard humbucker size and the original Guild HB1 pickups just don't fit so there is no easy solution.
Perhaps the Fender made pickups could be sent to a custom shop and Bare Knuckle Pickups offer a rewind service and
if Bare Knuckle Pickups can perform their magic inorder to turn the standard Fender production HB1 into a handwound
custom shop replica of the original Guild HB1 it would certainly transform the Starfire.
Another idea was to perhaps get a set of TV.Jones "Supertrons" which are like a jazz Filtertron toaster style pickup in a standard/English mount
and create a kinda custom "Super Starfire".
Both solutions are perhaps a compromise and how close to the original legendary Guild HB1 would a custom rewind of the standard factory production Fender pickups get and a set of the excellent TV.Jones replica Gretsch pickups is altogether another direction but both Bare Knuckle Pickups and TV.Jones filtertrons are amazing custom pickups and would certainly transform a fine instrument into somekinda custom super axe.

(Tv.Jones now offer a replica Guild DeArmond/Gretsch Dynasonic and Bare Knuckle Pickups in the U.K. offer a range of classic humbuckers)

 

[gkoelling]

I've heard the Bareknuckle name but am not familiar with them, I'll take a look. I've also contacted Bryan Gunshern at BG Pickups, he's always been very reasonable but needs to see the pickups before giving me a firm price, which I have no problem with. He custom wound a Strat set for me a couple years back and I'm real happy with those.

 

[mad dog]

I'm loving the Zhangbucker "pure handwounds" in my old S-100. This guy (David Plummer) really has the touch. Don't know how his p/us would sound in a SF IV, but if I had the need, he'd get the call first.

MD

 

[firestar]

Just done some research.....
First off TV Jones Supertrons are £100 each in the UK and following another thread about a Starfire III about to get a TV Jones DeArmond/Dynasonic pickup swop the T'Armond cost £125 each.Ouch!
Now back to reality....Bare Knuckle Pickups "vintage rewinds"....is a kinda world service....UK postage £5.95 signed delivery and worldwide £9.95
insured mail.
"Rewind of humbucker to spec with vintage enamel wire including repotting of covers if necessary....£64 per pickup."
So it seems the good people at Bare Knuckle Pickups can turn a set of average factory standard Fender production Guild HB1 pickups into custom
handmade scatterwound pickups for £128.
Question is that obviously Bare Knuckle Pickups would firstly need an email or phone call about requirements....this is the science bit and somewhat
beyond ordinary technical know how....please assist as help is needed.
I am now seriously thinking that as a project in the near future known as next year that the rather average Fender made HB1 pickups would be transformed with a "vintage rewind" but what are the technical specifications of the original Guild HB1 pickups.....they are said to be somewhat different from even a vintage Gibson humbucker obviously.....so what sort of information would be essential inorder to aim for original Guild HB1
performance or would the good people at Bare Knuckle Pickups already have such facts and figures.
In short what vital information and specifications would need to be passed on to Bare Knuckle Pickups before sending the Fender-made Guild HB1
pickups for a "vintage rewind" as the aim would be for the original Guild HB1 specification.

 

[Tapnets]

I have a 2000 starfire iv as well with the mentioned pu's. They do sound great but I am changing them to Seth Lovers. Great pickups and no modifications. To put old guilds on this guitar would involve modifications that I will not do because it will alter the appearance and originality of the insterment. If later I do not like them I can always put the old pu's back in.

Hope this helps

 

[Zelja]

In short what vital information and specifications would need to be passed on to Bare Knuckle Pickups before sending the Fender-made Guild HB1
pickups for a "vintage rewind" as the aim would be for the original Guild HB1 specification.

The original Guild HB-1s that I have had in my possession have had a DC Resistance of 6.8K to 7.1k. Perhaps of more importance is their inductance (which IMO is a much better indicator of overall tone of a pickup than DC Resistance) which I've measure to be between 3.95 & 4.1 Henries. This is relatively low compared to even a vintage style PAF (generally 7.8/7.9K & about 5.0H & the more modern humbuckers are often much higher in both specs). DC Resistance is often misleading as you can get to the same value by using more turns of thicker wire or less turns of thinner wire. In a pickup the actual number of turns is a more salient number than the DC resistance (a function of the number of turns & wire gauge (i.er thickness)). Inductance is a function of the number of turns of wire, magnet strength & is also affected by base plate materials, screws & rods used in the coils, coil shape/dimensions etc. The lower the inductance the clearer & brighter a pickup generally is( e.g. Fender single coils are generally under 3 Henries).

I haven't seen any actual info anywhere as to what type (I assume alnico) & grade of magnets are used in the HB-1s, nor have I seen the type & gauge of wire used. Also the studs are square on the HB-1s rather than round as on most other humbuckers. Maybe the material (less so than the shape I would think) of these also impacts on the tonal qualities of this beloved pickup. I'm sure that Bare Knuckle could do a pickup to the basic HB-1 specs which would sound very good. I'd probably get them to maybe have a slightly weaker neck pickup compared to the bridge. Others may like a slightly hotter bridge than vintage specs - depends on what tones you are after I guess.

TV Jones are great pickups. You can buy a TV tron mount which size wise would fit into the standard PU rings but are 2 hole rather than 3 hole mount so you have to either modify the pickup tab to accept 2 holes on the treble side or drill the PU rings (which I never like to do). The TV Tron mounts are also not as aesthetically pleasing as the original size TV Jones Filtertron style pickups, IMO. The other alternative as GAD has done is to get the standard size TV Jones pickups with their English mount rings but the screw holes don't align 100% with the Guild pickup rings (they do with Gibson sized rings, which are the defacto standard). I have the Classic Plus in my Ibanez AS200 (maple ES335 type guitar) & the guitar is brighter than my '97 SF4 which has vintage HB-1s installed. Both sound great though. I tried a Powertron (almost identical DC resistance to the Classic Plus but it's Inductance is 5.0 Henries compared to 3.7H) & I thought it was too much -too middy sounding. The Powertron sounds stellar in my Orville Les Paul though. I think TV Jones pickups would sound wonderful in a Starfire, though if you were to put a Classic Plus or Powertron in the bridge position I would mate it up with a Powertron in the neck (the Classic is too weak/too different soundind I think & you can't get a Classic Plus for the neck position).

I'm loving the Zhangbucker "pure handwounds" in my old S-100. This guy (David Plummer) really has the touch. Don't know how his p/us would sound in a SF IV, but if I had the need, he'd get the call first.

+1 - Dave does great work. I haven't tried his full size humuckers but have a set of his mini-humbuckers in a cheap Indonesian Epi Wishire & they sound great, so much so that I'm now looking for a better guitar to put them in. Also have his P90 in a Hamer Korina Jr which I was close to selling before finding him. I also have a bridge PU for a tele I need to get around to installing. He just seems to provide what I often look for in a pickup.

 

[Default]

If you cut a Dunlop heavy Nylon pick into strips, you can make an adapter bar for guild pups

 

[guildman63]

Another option is to send one of your pickups, covers and rings to Vintage Vibe Guitars, tell him what sound you want, and he will make you a set of custom pups that fit inside your original covers and rings and therefore need no drilling, cutting, or modifications of any kind. I had him make a set of HB's for an X-170T I used to have and told him I was looking for the old Franz pup sound in single coil mode, and he did a great job. I ultimately sold that guitar to help finance my purchase of a GSR T-500, so while I do miss it a lot I am more than happy with the T-500.

As for the cost, it is very reasonable, and for mine was less than the cost of buying a new pair of quality pups. The guy you want to talk to is Pete Biltoft, and you can reach him at www.vintagevibeguitars.com.

Good luck!

 

[Tapnets]

Sorry for the late response, I was laid up for a bit. I will contact them.

Regards

Patrick

 

[jmix]

Another option is to send one of your pickups, covers and rings to Vintage Vibe Guitars, tell him what sound you want, and he will make you a set of custom pups that fit inside your original covers and rings and therefore need no drilling, cutting, or modifications of any kind. I had him make a set of HB's for an X-170T I used to have and told him I was looking for the old Franz pup sound in single coil mode, and he did a great job. I ultimately sold that guitar to help finance my purchase of a GSR T-500, so while I do miss it a lot I am more than happy with the T-500.

As for the cost, it is very reasonable, and for mine was less than the cost of buying a new pair of quality pups. The guy you want to talk to is Pete Biltoft, and you can reach him at http://www.vintagevibeguitars.com.

Good luck!

I've ordered a custom made pickguard from Vintage Vibe Guitars for a Vox guitar (the original PG was severely warped).
Pete made a very good job, for a fair price.

 

[powerwagonjohn]

I think you will be happy with the Duncan Seth Lover pick ups. They are what was used in the GSR Starfire and sound great but not exactally like the HB-1. Evan at Seymore Duncan suggested the Duncan SH-1 59's as the closest pick-up they make to the HB-1 pick ups.
Thanks John