Starfire II NS bass - E string bridge saddle issue

[Stevemcd]

Purchased new this week. I’m still deciding whether or not I’ll be keeping it or sending it back. With that in mind has anybody else had an issue with the E string slipping out of the rosewood saddle? I’d imagine filing the saddle groove deeper will secure the string better. But I’m not totally convinced. I don’t want to alter the bass unless I know it will work. I palm mute at the bridge and often dig in quite hard with a pick. So far I’m experimenting with thinner strings and this 100 gauge E gauge seems to slip even worse. Here’s two shots the first is where the string wants to rest naturally and the other with me physically pulling the string over the saddle. Love to hear if people are coming across this issue and how they’re dealing with it. Cheers!

 

[lungimsam]

Three options I can think of:

1. Flip the saddle around and see if it works better that way. Careful not to squeeze it front to back too hard as they can snap in half. Notice that the nut slot is cut off center so be sure to put it back on the right way before this next step:

2. File it a little deeper. I've done it. Go very very little at a time and try try try. File a little more if needed.
Only go as low as you need. I recommend following the break angle of the strings, while not filing the front edge of the notch closest to the pickups so that you keep the action the same height where the string emerges from the saddle as it travels towards the pickup. Keep that jumping off point the same height it is now.

If you like the bass, it is worth keeping it, because there is no inherent issue with strings popping out on Starfires, if that's what you were wondering. It will work.
And worst case, you can buy a new saddle set from Guild's online shop.

3. Create a sharper break angle by lowering the back of the bridge slightly with the two big screws. This may necessitate lowering or raising the front of the bridge also with the worm/grub screws, too, and lowering the back can effect the front and vice versa. It is a see-saw type back and forth adjustment til you get the bridge just how you want it. That is just how this bridge works.

My compliments on the green color version!! I just got one of those and the finish is stunning!

 

[Stevemcd]

Hey thanks for the response. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “break angle”. But I’m guessing you mean make sure the slot doesn’t change position? Can you suggest a specific tool? I don’t own any files but glad to buy the right tool for the job.

 

[lungimsam]

Break angle is the angle of the strings as they travel from ball end anchor point of the bridge to the saddles. You can see the angle by looking at the bridge from the side. Hold the file at that angle and follow that angle and do not file down the front edge of the saddle notch (on the side nearest the pickup) or you will lower the action of that saddle. Just do like two strokes and see if that fixes it. If not try two more strokes and repeat until you get it where you want it. Be gentle. Don't dig in hard with the file.

Any round file that will fit in the notch and NOT make the width of it bigger will work. This could be a small round file from a hardware store or a .100 bass guitar nut file if you have one. If you have a stiff section of stainless steel .100 roundwound string you could also try using that as a file. Like a section that is cut off by the ball end. But a real file would be safest.

 

[Stevemcd]

Thank you again for the helpful suggestions and general brain power on this.
I tried turning the big screws to increase the angle but they were very tight. I didn’t try to tightening any further. That said, the break angle seems to my eyes like it should be sufficient.

I’ve tried filing the slot on the saddle with a round wound string and also my wife’s nail file. Being mindful not to file the pick up side of the slot or widen the slot, just deepen it.

It’s a pretty hard wood (website says ebony not rosewood),.. i have deepened it a little bit but my efforts are mostly just sort of polishing the slot, making it smoother. The pyramid string that I currently have on it is super smooth too and it just slides out of the slot long before I could tighten the string to pitch. It’s such a drag that they let instruments leave the factory not playable. Or the retailer sends it to customers rather than back to the factory. I’m considering buying a new set of blank saddles and investing in a real luthier doing this final stage of set up correctly. But also this just seems ridiculous. Like maybe I should send it back for a different one without this problem? But shipping and restocking costs. Ugh.

 

[lungimsam]

Don’t be discouraged.
Looks like you still have way too little break angle. You should be able to get the ball end of that bridge way lower.
If you are attempting to screw it in more while the strings are tuned to pitch then you are fighting the string tension.
Try totally detuning the strings and then screwing in those big screws that seem tight. Here’s my break angle pictured below for reference. You can see you can get the back of that bridge way lower. Maybe you are fighting the string tension and need to loosen the strings first. If you live in the DC/MD area I’d be glad to help you with it.
After seeing your picture I’m sure the break angle is the problem and should be easily fixed.

 

[Stevemcd]

Don’t be discouraged.
Looks like you still have way too little break angle. You should be able to get the ball end of that bridge way lower.
If you are attempting to screw it in more while the strings are tuned to pitch then you are fighting the string tension.
Try totally detuning the strings and then screwing in those big screws that seem tight. Here’s my break angle pictured below for reference. You can see you can get the back of that bridge way lower. Maybe you are fighting the string tension and need to loosen the strings first. If you live in the DC/MD area I’d be glad to help you with it.
After seeing your picture I’m sure the break angle is the problem and should be easily fixed.

Thanks for the photo. That’s very helpful. I have black foam surrounding my screws under the bridge. Am I suppose to remove that, Is it there just for shipping? It’s not easy for me to see if your still has it. But it looks like no.

 

[lungimsam]

Yes, my foam blocks are still there. Don’t remove them. They will easily compress when the bridge is screwed down.

 

[Stevemcd]

It worked! You’re a genius and I’m a stress case baby man! Thank you for the info and the patience. Now I’m excited, I love the bass.

 

[GGJaguar]

And this is why LTG is such a great place. Glad your bass is up to snuff now. Have fun!

 

[lungimsam]

Good job! Told 'ya it was an easy fix! And remember you can still file some more on the saddle if you ever think you need to.

These bridges are wonky but work great once you figure out how to set them up. That's why I say it is a see saw act between the front and back of the bridge - getting the bridge settled just right between the grub action screw adjustment in front and the rear bridge plate screw adjustment in back. Sometimes when you adjust the back screws it makes the front of the bridge pop up and then the grub screws lose their contact with the front bridge plate, so you have to loosen the back screws a little again and then reset the grub screws for action, or just screw in the grub screws til they make contact again as long as your action is where you want it, etc... It's a balancing act. But mighty satisfyin' when you get it right where you want it and realize you have tamed the bridge!!

Glad you are happy with the bass.

 

[mellowgerman]

lungimsam nailed it!

Only thing I will add is: though you want the angle of your bridge to look more or less like lungimsam's photo, just make sure you don't tighten the back too much. Without string tension on the bridge, it should be slightly loose/squishy (for lack of a better term), as you still want to allow enough flexibility for the front height adjuster screws to be able to do their job.

 

[lungimsam]

Good point! It doesn’t need to be totally tightened down. Just lowered.

 

[mellowgerman]

Good point! It doesn’t need to be totally tightened down. Just lowered.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Teleharmonium's bridge woes (recently discussed in a thread that I saw while I was swamped with work and didn't have the time to respond) resulted from somebody, somewhere along the line over-tightening those back screws and then trying to force the front height adjustment beyond it's physical limit