Standard Series is going strictly cutaway

chazmo

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If I heard this right (and please correct me if I didn't, folks) Guild's marketing manager told us yesterday at LMG that the Standard Series guitars are only going to be available as cutaway models in the future.

This means that the non-cutaway Standard models (like my F-212XL STD) are discontinued.

I think this explains the fire sale prices we've seen on a few recent models (like the G-312 models).

I didn't get an explanation for this.... LMGers did anyone follow up with Chris about that?
 

charliea

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I presume they weren't making a profit at a measly couple of grand. Of course, they moved the msrp of the 212XLCE up to $3400 or so. Guild sure is narrowing it's market for American-made models.
 

jeffcoop

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I also wonder how well they were selling. The B stock selection yesterday included a number of D50s, which were described as actually having no issues but simply being leftovers that hadn't sold.
 

gibsonjunkie

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I heard at least two Guild people say the same thing about cutaways only. They also said that some guitars weren't really blemished but they wanted to have a few to sell.
 

F30

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I prefer a non cutaway everytime. Even if I have to stritch to get those upper notes....
Crazy I guess but you like what you like. Is this the whole standard series line including the F30's???
 

Watasha

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I'm REALLY hoping this isn't true. I can't wrap my head around why anyone would think this is a good idea. Personally, I would rather them discontinue the Standard series before making them all cutaways. I personally will never, ever buy an acoustic guitar with a cutaway. Here I thought things were rockin' & rollin' for Guild up in New Hartford with the hiring of Ren Ferguson & bringing back the Custom Shop & electric models. One great decision after another...then THIS? What a bummer.
 

jeffcoop

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Yes, they said the whole Standard line was going cutaway only. I think this is a mistake, but I'm not in the business, and I haven't seen the sales numbers.
 

chazmo

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Yeah, I guess we should have pried further for an explanation. I think if the demand were higher they'd continue to build em, but I don't know their reasoning.

Anyway, I have played the cutaway Standards and they are really nice. I'm just glad I got my F-212XL while I could.
 

chazmo

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I'm REALLY hoping this isn't true. I can't wrap my head around why anyone would think this is a good idea. Personally, I would rather them discontinue the Standard series before making them all cutaways. I personally will never, ever buy an acoustic guitar with a cutaway. Here I thought things were rockin' & rollin' for Guild up in New Hartford with the hiring of Ren Ferguson & bringing back the Custom Shop & electric models. One great decision after another...then THIS? What a bummer.

Watasha,

First, welcome aboard!

I'm sorry, but without a real explanation of why, it's difficult to fairly weigh these corporate decisions.

Things are still going well for Guild, and having just been there with the Guild folks in NH, I can assure you that the energy and quality are still there.

Unfortunately, when we asked what are we going to see for 2014, we got tight lips. I was a bit surprised by that. They DID say there were new Guilds coming though!!!

I tend not to question their judgement at the moment. They gave us an amazing 60th anniversary year. I suspect we should be patient.
 

cpeehler7

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I also wonder how well they were selling. The B stock selection yesterday included a number of D50s, which were described as actually having no issues but simply being leftovers that hadn't sold.

Just curious, where do you see their B stock guitars?
 

Bill Ashton

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Clearly this has been in the works for a while, as they (the non-cutaway Standards) are missing in the new 2013 catalog...we got copies at LMG IV, but it has been out for quite a while.

Remember someone said these decisions are made by "marketing' and not "sales"...
 

Watasha

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Watasha,

First, welcome aboard!

I'm sorry, but without a real explanation of why, it's difficult to fairly weigh these corporate decisions.

Things are still going well for Guild, and having just been there with the Guild folks in NH, I can assure you that the energy and quality are still there.

Unfortunately, when we asked what are we going to see for 2014, we got tight lips. I was a bit surprised by that. They DID say there were new Guilds coming though!!!

I tend not to question their judgement at the moment. They gave us an amazing 60th anniversary year. I suspect we should be patient.

Thank you friend. I know well the amazing year we have had as I bought my D55 this year & the quality is superb. I'm just disappointed by this decision, if it holds true. Thanks for your reply.
 

mcduffnw

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Hi All...

Well...I think this is both a sad...and a bad decision on Fender's part...if what you have heard is correct, and will really come to pass. I really feel that just going to cutaway only on all of the standard series models would/will just further alienate the "traditional Guild fans"...who just keep on hoping that someday, somehow, someone who really loves the original Guild Guitar Company...what it stood for under Alfred Dronge...and the guitars that they made...will buy the company and just make all the great classic Guild models, and stop fiddling around with the "brand". If they lose the old time Guild fans/players, they will eventually lose the brand. Of all people...Ren Ferguson really ought to know that...considering all that he went through at Gibson Acoustic, to rebuild a brand that was nearly ruined by some of the same type of "tinkering" that you see happening with Guild. I wonder what Ren is really thinking about all of this...really thinking...

Of course...this is the ultimate problem with Guild. They aren't really Guild...they are really Fender...or FMIC in actuality. Guild hasn't been Guild really since they were bought out by Avnett, and it has showed in the long run, as Guild has mostly seemed to exist as a "red headed stepchild" in the market, always fighting for attention, for autonomy, for room to breath and just be Guild, as it existed in the 50's and 60's, and very early 70's when it REALLY was a huge force in the acoustic music/acoustic guitar market. When Fender first bought them, everyone hoped that this would be a bold and strong re-birth...but that did not happen. Instead Fender has just bounced them around, and never really seemed to want to spend the time and money to really really re-build the brand. Say what you will about "Crazy Henry J" at Gibson...but somehow, Ren got the manpower, and the moneypower to do the job he needed to do, and he did it right...going back to basics, going back to the models that made Gibson a force in the market, and building them up right, and bringing them out to a market that really hungered for them, and then really responded by buying.

Now I know that some of you guys seem to be in tight...evidently?...with folks at Guild, and they keep saying that things are looking up...but...I have to say that I don't necessarily see/feel that. We hear all the time from people here on LTG and what I see/hear all the time over on the AGF, that they want to see/try a Guild, that they are really interested in a Guild...but they just can not find any that are anywhere near them. This is true here in Portland, Oregon. Portland Music has some...but they're stock is not huge, and there is no one else around, anywhere here in Oregon, who seems to have them...maybe Mckenzie River Music in Eugene. I don't what it is like in the Seattle area, but I doubt that it is much better. Also, as many of you have mentioned...Guilds pricing is not a bargain at all...not that they ought to be...but...that WAS part of Guilds allure in their glory years of the 50's to the 70's. They made an a really great looking, really great sounding guitar, and sold it for a good deal less than the comparable Martin.

I know you guys have a lot of faith in the folks you talk to at Guild...but...when you see what they say to you folks each year at the LMG gigs...and then see what they do...like the Orpheum line...or this new wrinkle. When you see people asking...in vain...for over 20 years now, for Guild to build a John Denver commemorative 6 and 12 string...and make NO mistake...John Denver WAS their biggest star...a true superstar touring the world playing his iconic F-50RAA and F-612 for many many years...and there most definitely IS a market for these guitars...look at what Martin and Gibson have done with all of their signature series guitars. When you see all of this in the aggregate...well...I at least really have to wonder if and or where this is all going to lead...in any really good way...for Guild Guitars...and all of the fans/players of Guild Guitars.

I think...just me personally...that the problem is that Guild really needs ownership that prioritizes the music, history, and heritage, first...at least in really re-building the brand...and then the X's and 0's of the business second. If they would get the first one right...I think the second one would fall into place nicely...but make no mistake...Larry Thomas...the CEO of FMIC...is an X's and 0's guy ALL the way.

I fear I am starting to hear the "Bells of Rhymney" chiming for Guild...again...

I hope that I am dead wrong...

I am sad...

Kind Regards
duff
 

tommym

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......When you see people asking...in vain...for over 20 years now, for Guild to build a John Denver commemorative 6 and 12 string...and make NO mistake...John Denver WAS their biggest star...a true superstar touring the world playing his iconic F-50RAA and F-612 for many many years...and there most definitely IS a market for these guitars....

Yep, sign me up for a JD F-50RAA Commemorative.

Taylor Guitars manage to get a few commemorative guitars out a while ago, and I was going to buy one, but I am still holding out for the hope that one day Guild will get a few of these out the door too. Geez, I hope it won't end up being a GAD F-130 with an eagle and a hawk sticker on it....:tongue-new:

Tommy
 
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geoguy

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I never understood why they did the "standard" series, anyhow. Seemed to me that the manufacturing expense & purchase price were too close to the "traditional" series to justify the "standard" series' existence.

Will the new cutaway standard-series guitars all have pickups?
 

chazmo

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duff,

You need to come to the next LMG!! :)

I'll be honest... Even the crazy optimistic Guild faithful among us (cough, cough) recognize and struggle with some of the troubles you are talking about. But I think a lot of your concerns would be allayed by spending time with these people.

I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but I'm hoping a bunch of new Guilds will be seen in 2014. I wish I'd asked a follow-on question about the Standard Series, but we were all anxious to get the jam started!! :)

(wish you'd been there!)
 

chazmo

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I never understood why they did the "standard" series, anyhow. Seemed to me that the manufacturing expense & purchase price were too close to the "traditional" series to justify the "standard" series' existence.

Will the new cutaway standard-series guitars all have pickups?
As you know, the idea was to find a lower priced sweet spot, but what you're saying is right, geoguy. But, marketing isn't shutting down the series, just re-orienting it.

And, good question about the pickups. Another question unasked.
 

Lend27

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I just "discovered" Guild recently.
I knew John Denver played a Guild, and saw Paul Simon with a Guild, and even remembered Tommy Smothers and his Guild.
I also saw many big name stars playing them on the road, such as George Strait, a tribute to Guild's durability.
Anyway, when I decided to purchase a new high end acoustic I chose a D-55.
I had owned Gibsons and Martins in the past, but they didnt really float my boat.
But the D-55 certainly is special. So special that I had to have an F-30R. Which I bought and love it.
This past week I purchased an M-120, since I had heard so much about the GAD line. It's a great guitar.
And none of these are cutaways. Just don't like cutaways. I prefer a more traditional look.
So now I have 3 Guilds. In the past year. I have to admit that if only cutaways were available I would not have ordered a Guild.
I hope Guild reconsiders. I just may have to snag another standard just in case.
What model would offer a different feel or sound based on what I have?
Thanks guys!
Len
 
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