So Where Does Cordoba Take Guild From Here

[West R Lee]

Appy, I can't think of a more admirable and selfless thing for a couple to do than adopt a child. I wish you, your wife, your son, and your soon to be married daughter all the best.

West

HIYA SCRATCH!!!!!!!!!!! I was hoping you were still on here. I'm doing a-ok, how in the heck have you been? Still in Texas I see. I'm sorry I quit being a regular. Went back to my old job and back to training young folks and we adopted our son Jon. He is 15 now, playing football. He went from being a kid abandoned at 6, becoming street wise to a young man considering his future. Lisa and I are so proud of him, as we are with all our kids. Oldest daughters getting married on our 30th wedding anniversary, Sept. 29th. Main thing is I'm glad to be back on here and seeing West R. Lee, Default, Killdeer43, you and others I'm familiar with, I feel at home. I'm still gigging out here and there and having a good time.

 

[mario1956]

Guildman- You hit the nail on the head in many ways. They have to promote what they have. Fender is just too large and I suspect they'll eliminate or sell off some more brands before it's all said and done.
I think the new Guilds should offer the Orpheums, the D55, and F512/612 as their specialty models (use premium woods like Adirondack or Eurpoean/Italian tops) , the D25, D40, D50, F30, F40 in rosewood, F312, and F412 in the standard series. They should keep the F-120 to try to get young players interested with a guitar that would be easy to play for them. The D4 and D6 for entry level. And of course any electronics should be available when requested. This would keep the offerings to about 12 or so models and could be easily managed.
I am like many if you in this group that while I own guitars from more than one maker somehow it's just not complete without a Guild somewhere. I own a couple of Mossmans, while not being very well known, sound better than any Gibson and most Martins but they can be had for relatively nothing. I think they and Guild share a common link. Suppose that's why I like em.....

 

[West R Lee]

Mario........you own a couple of Mossman guitars? They build them right down the road here in Sulphur Springs. They aren't too inexpensive if you buy them new.

West

 

[twocorgis]

Mario........you own a couple of Mossman guitars? They build them right down the road here in Sulphur Springs. They aren't too inexpensive if you buy them new.

West

I think they're no longer in business Jim, and their phone has been disconnected. I'm guessing the guitars that Mario is referring to are the original Mossman guitars made by Stuart Mossman and company in the '70s. I've been intrigued by them, but most of the ones that I've found needed neck resets, and weren't cheap either. I found this thread over at AGF about the Sulphur Springs guitars, and there's a good background of the original company, courtesy of Vintage Guitar. The two original Mossmans that I've played were very nice, but had necks that were a wee bit fatter than I'd like.

 

[West R Lee]

Lotsa bluegrassers around here play 'em.

West

I think they're no longer in business Jim, and their phone has been disconnected. I'm guessing the guitars that Mario is referring to are the original Mossman guitars made by Stuart Mossman and company in the '70s. I've been intrigued by them, but most of the ones that I've found needed neck resets, and weren't cheap either. I found this thread over at AGF about the Sulphur Springs guitars, and there's a good background of the original company, courtesy of Vintage Guitar. The two original Mossmans that I've played were very nice, but had necks that were a wee bit fatter than I'd like.

 

[twocorgis]

Lotsa bluegrassers around here play 'em.

West

The same is true around here. I sit in at the monthly meetings of the local Bluegrass society here when I can. Just about the only guitars you see other than D18s and D28s are Mossmans, but they're the old '70s models.

 

[West R Lee]

Yep, they're big on Martins down there too Sandy. I've sat in on a few of their jams and you should see the looks I get. : )

West

 

[twocorgis]

Yep, they're big on Martins down there too Sandy. I've sat in on a few of their jams and you should see the looks I get. : )

West

Well, we've got one guy with a Westerly D25. I plan on showing up next session with the Orpheum Jumbo!

 

[fronobulax]

Getting a sense of deja vu here but nice to see people honing their opinions and others joining in who didn't before.

Two points made elsewhere but not yet brought up here.

Concerning the vision that looks at what made Guild a great brand in the 1970's and tries to recreate that by "mass marketing" and winning on price for a given quality, there is a convincing to me case that the market that fueled that success no longer exists. Today's entry level players are not spending a lot for quality and the number of players who move on to a second guitar seems to be shrinking. OK, someone is buying Taylors but muscling in to an existing market that is both saturated and shrinking does not seem like the path to success to me.

A second point to be made is country of origin. Without discussing the merits and reasons why, it is true that a significant part of the potential market will buy American or not at all. When you look at Cordoba's American facilities it is pretty clear that they are going to have to increase American capacity, stay out of mass markets or ignore that sentiment in the market. If my goal was to make money and I was going to do so by rebuilding the Guild brand I'm probably going to test the waters with very limited American production at first which that initially only the boutique strategy is even viable.

But as West takes justifiable glee in noting, I have been wrong before and probably am again.

 

[chazmo]

That's pretty much what New Hartford did from the git go, Jamie. In reality, I don't think any of us actually know whether money was made or lost during the first year or so of very limited production, starting with D-55s and then branching out a bit. I suspect all the tooling up was at a substantial loss, but those are startup costs. I have no idea what the bottom line was on 5 years of operation.

Also, Cordoba has the advantage of inheriting all the tooling, etc., from NH, so maybe they have a slight leg up.

In any case, I think CMG will focus on filling the demand, such as it is, during the first year at least. I can't imagine "growing the brand" or introducing new models in the short-term, although I'd love to eat my words and see what Ren has in mind. And, I guess prices will not be lower (and probably higher) than what we saw from NH.

 

[MLBob]

........in 1975, a lady at Guild went beyond the call of duty for me to find me a lefty D-40. (Swallens in Cincy).

Man, Guild Guitars stocked at Swallen's!! - that brings back memories. Was it the store on Red Bank Road? Swallens was a family run business that was a Cincy institution for a long time. They treated people right, but things unraveled after the old man (Pat Swallen) passed away about 8 years before they closed down. Unfortunately, they went the way of a lot of family businesses that were around for generations. They closed the doors in the early 90's. Unfortunately, it was really ugly for the long time employees who held a lot of shares in the company and lost everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swallen's

Bob

 

[West R Lee]

I couldn't imagine growing the brand in the short term either Charlie, if fact if anything, I'd think they might limit models. It will be interesting to see what they do with these points made by both you and Frono. My guess would be fewer models, but I wouldn't have a clue as to pricing. But Frono, if someone is buying Taylors, isn't it possible they might buy a Guild instead?

And you know, speaking of Taylor, how do they do it? How does Taylor offer so many models, build so damned many of them, and sell them for a relatively handsome price? I have an opinion, but I'd be interested to see what some of you have to say. Though there are a few aspects of Taylor guitars that I don't personally care for, one can't argue Taylor's success.

West

That's pretty much what New Hartford did from the git go, Jamie. In reality, I don't think any of us actually know whether money was made or lost during the first year or so of very limited production, starting with D-55s and then branching out a bit. I suspect all the tooling up was at a substantial loss, but those are startup costs. I have no idea what the bottom line was on 5 years of operation.

Also, Cordoba has the advantage of inheriting all the tooling, etc., from NH, so maybe they have a slight leg up.

In any case, I think CMG will focus on filling the demand, such as it is, during the first year at least. I can't imagine "growing the brand" or introducing new models in the short-term, although I'd love to eat my words and see what Ren has in mind. And, I guess prices will not be lower (and probably higher) than what we saw from NH.

 

[Appalachian Blues]

Man, Guild Guitars stocked at Swallen's!! - that brings back memories. Was it the store on Red Bank Road? Swallens was a family run business that was a Cincy institution for a long time. They treated people right, but things untraveled after the old man (Pat Swallen) passed away about 8 years before they closed down. Unfortunately, they went the way of a lot of family businesses that were around for generations. They closed the doors in the early 90's. Unfortunately, it was really ugly for the long time employees who held a lot of shares in the company and lost everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swallen's

Bob

MLBob, nice to meet a fellow Ohioan!! I was born and raised in the Wayne National Forest area above Marietta. Swallens shipped the guitar to me. I've never forgotten coming home from work and walla, there is was!! I'm a huge Cincinnati Reds fan too!!

 

[Jahn]

I can see Guild following a similar business plan to Cordoba's current plan. Ren can oversee the high end USA guitars, personally put out a few a year as signature pieces, and Cordoba can put out a less expensive overseas line separate from this.

Take for example this current Cordoba designer:

Edmund Blöchinger: Since 1982, Blöchinger has handcrafted guitars from the finest quality woods, and has worked closely with the great guitarists of the Romero family. Although he works alone and only produces 10 handmade instruments per year, Blöchinger designs and oversees the building of all España and Artist level guitars made in Spain.

 

[Default]

I couldn't imagine growing the brand in the short term either Charlie, if fact if anything, I'd think they might limit models. It will be interesting to see what they do with these points made by both you and Frono. My guess would be fewer models, but I wouldn't have a clue as to pricing. But Frono, if someone is buying Taylors, isn't it possible they might buy a Guild instead?

And you know, speaking of Taylor, how do they do it? How does Taylor offer so many models, build so damned many of them, and sell them for a relatively handsome price? I have an opinion, but I'd be interested to see what some of you have to say. Though there are a few aspects of Taylor guitars that I don't personally care for, one can't argue Taylor's success.

West

Automation. There aren't as many people involved in the process as you might think. As we saw at the LMGs, a lot of what used to be done with drawknives and chisels is done with cnc machinery. NH was running below it's capacity almost it's entire existance. One of their aims was to get the carving on the necks improved to such a fine degree that there would be almost no sanding necessary. Add in the bolton necks and poly finish and production takes much less time and the product costs less.

 

[ghostlady]

From a non-acoustic player.
Keep the Newark Street Electric Models and production with the current Korean manufacturer (SPG). I own two guitars from this particular manufacturer, one Guild (Starfire V) and One Gretsch Electromatic (g5622). When I found out guilds were made in the same facility I jumped on it, especially since they seem a step up from the electromatics which are already very nice.

They are great, and they represent a nice mid point from the Korean and Japanese Gretsches. The quality is right up there with the Japanese Gretsch pro-line guitars. Additionally do not move these downmarket either to China or Indonesia where quality can be hit and miss. Korean and Japanese guitars right now are just as good, if not better, than many American made factory guitars (masterbuilts is a different story). Reverend, Gretsch, and now the Guild Newark St. owners know just how good these Korean guitars are.

I know it maybe tempting to restart US electric production and only go for the high end, but outside of Gibson and Fender, and the very high end botique market. Many of us prefer the Korean and Japanese electric guitars. The US guitars are also likely to make guild electrics completely out of reach for most people. So making both US custom and Korean entry-high market guitars, as is the current model would be ideal. Personally I am at the point I prefer Korean and Japanese electrics, especially the SPG made ones which are exceptional guitars.