So Where Does Cordoba Take Guild From Here

[West R Lee]

I just thought it would be interesting to hear what all of us laymen who know nothing about the guitar business to kick around what our plans would include if we were running guild at Cordoba. What would your strategy be?

I'd think first and foremost, you'd need to remember what got Guild to the position they were in at their peak? What got Guild to that point? To me, undeniably it would be Guilds old reputation as the "working man's" guitar, while keeping as closely with tradition as possible. A very high quality, well built guitar that sounded incredible at a cheaper price. Man, I know that's a lot to ask in this day and time, but not impossible.

I'd think you'd need a marketing strategy, one that really gets your guitars out there, whether it be in the hands of musicians, in stores or in the media. Make them visible. Don't even try and compete with the so-called boutique guitars, not until you establish yourself, or reestablish the brand I should say.

Forget 30 different models! Discover which models are classic, such as the D55 and the F50, or maybe the D25 (I'm sure there are others) and build them to the highest standards possible. I will also say that the more I see and learn about Ren's slope shouldered Orpheum, the more I like it. And offer them at lower prices than the competition. Again, a tall order.

Establish your clientele, and treat them right. Word of mouth and return customers are huge. Stand by your product as much as economically possible.

I will say that it sounds as if they're off to a good start by hiring this man away from Fender.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVVTSuC-01k

Anyone else?

West

 

[walrus]

Very interesting video! Thanks!

Hard to argue with your comments, the question is how to actually pull that off in today's very competitive guitar marketplace.

walrus

 

[guildman63]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the price of a new Guild was ever significantly less than their competition, but where the savings are found is in the used market, which is what attracted most of us to Guild in the first place. The unfortunate reality is that if Guild were to establish a Gibson- or Fender-like reputation among the general population, then the main thing that attracted most of us to Guild will disappear as used prices would likely skyrocket. Do we want a company that is more popular with the masses, and the higher costs associated with that popularity? Or do we want quality guitars at bargain prices because the other G's are perceived to be better? Now there's your dilemma! I, for one, want Guild to be perceived as top of the line for guitars, and the higher used costs are an acceptable result. For that to happen it is all about quality control, marketing, and customer support.

 

[West R Lee]

In the 60-70's, Guilds were less expensive than the comparable Martin/Gibson. And to answer your question, I want Guild to reestablish itself. They'll always be popular with me and you, but in order to remain viable, it's going to take more than LTG to keep them afloat. Whether we want them to be or not, Guild is going to have to be popular with the masses to compete.

West

I could be wrong, but I don't think the price of a new Guild was ever significantly less than their competition, but where the savings are found is in the used market, which is what attracted most of us to Guild in the first place. The unfortunate reality is that if Guild were to establish a Gibson- or Fender-like reputation among the general population, then the main thing that attracted most of us to Guild will disappear as used prices would likely skyrocket. Do we want a company that is more popular with the masses, and the higher costs associated with that popularity? Or do we want quality guitars at bargain prices because the other G's are perceived to be better? Now there's your dilemma! I, for one, want Guild to be perceived as top of the line for guitars, and the higher used costs are an acceptable result. For that to happen it is all about quality control, marketing, and customer support.

 

[Default]

I believe the idea was 90% of a Gibson at 90% of the price, just like Jim was saying.

Personally, deepsixing the Arcos line alows Guild to move into a more price-conscious area. While I personally have not problem dropping a couple of g's on a guitar anymore, there is a huge part of the market that thinks $1000 is crazy money for an instrument.
That's where your D-4/25 model comes in. Pressed back for cheaper manufacture and volume. I would probably go with the thinnest poly finish I could get away with to cut down production time. Maybe throw an undersaddle pickup in every one, to make it easier for church players and open mic people.
Have a reasonable dealer policy. Don't force the mom's and pop's to buy a quarter million dollars worth of guitars to be a Guild dealer.
And have some kind of promotional budget. Taylor basicly moved into the vacuum left by Guild when Fender kept playing musical factories.
Imho, of course.

 

[pjheff]

I just thought it would be interesting to hear what all of us laymen who know nothing about the guitar business to kick around what our plans would include if we were running guild at Cordoba. What would your strategy be? I'd think first and foremost, you'd need to remember what got Guild to the position they were in at their peak? What got Guild to that point? To me, undeniably it would be Guilds old reputation as the "working man's" guitar, while keeping as closely with tradition as possible.

To that end, as I've posted elsewhere, I'd consistently offer a D40 and a D50, priced competitively below Martin's D18 and D28, along with limited runs that highlight prominent guitarists of the past and hopefully present: a Nick Drake M20, a Ryan Adams D25, a Mississippi John Hurt F30, a Joan Baez / Paul Simon F30R, a Richie Havens D40, a Bruce Springsteen D40SB, a Rick Danko F50, a Dave Van Ronk F50R, a Billie Jo Armstrong D55 (sorry Tommy Smothers), an Eric Clapton GF60, a Johnny Cash D60, a Tom Petty D25-12, a Tim Buckley F212, a Roger Hodgson F412, a David Gilmour F512, a John Denver F612, and a whatever the heck he's playing Bruno Mars and a whatever the heck she's playing Avril Lavigne edition.

 

[West R Lee]

"Misc" would be fine Charlie.......whatever you think.

And pjheff, there are so many I'd like to see, I couldn't name them all here. I was trying to keep the list pretty small, but all great guitars you mention. And Default makes a good point about distribution.

West

 

[GardMan]

I think the first thing Guild/Cordoba will need to address is their corporate "identity" and "mission." Are they (1) a large volume maker, building great guitars for the masses at affordable prices (this is where I saw Guild when I bought my D-35 in 1973), or (2) a small volume/small shop builder of "boutique" guitars (this is what I saw them moving towards in New Hartford). I am not sure they can do both from the outset. To me... this is where Guild/Fender faltered. In trying to do both, they failed to succeed at either... (or at least succeed fast enough for the venture capitalists). I think it is going to be a tough decision to make...

To choose the former, they would be "throwing out" the rep they started building in NH as makers of high quality, special edition guitars like the GSR and Orpheum series... focusing on high quality American made guitars at price points that are competitive with Martin, Gibson, Taylor, etc. For starters, in the lineup of dreads, re-introduce an American made arched back mahogany D-25, and keep the D-40 and D-50 as working man's mahogany and rosewood dreads, and the D-55 as the flagship rosewood dread. Maybe re-introduce the D-44 as a maple option. From my perspective... simplify things by keeping consistent... Sitka tops and NC high gloss finishes. Just 4-5 dread models (and maybe the same number of Fs, and a couple of 12ers), but they need to make them in sufficient numbers to GET THEM INTO SHOPS all over the country.

If they go the small shop/boutique approach, they will be building on the changes started in New Hartford, the GSR and Orpheum guitars, made in small numbers. But (IMO), Guild would be turning their (collective) backs on Guild's history of making high quality guitars at affordable prices. With fewer guitars out in the real world, they will have the same PR and name recognition problems they have faced for the last 10 years.

Whatever they choose, they have to do better at marketing Guild guitars than they have for the last 10 years. They have to get them into shops, and into the hands of players that are VISIBLE to the public... tomorrow's guitar buying public won't know John Denver, or Clapton, or Tommy Smothers. They need to see Guilds in the hands of the musicians they listen to and recognize.

I am desperately hoping they succeed, so that when someone asks what guitars I play, I don't get blank stares when I answer "Guild."

 

[West R Lee]

Very good Dave. : ) Obviously, if I could make a "wish list" the entire DV line would be on it. Again though, as far as wish lists, Though I've not played one, I really think I'd like to test drive a short scale, slope shouldered Guild dread in rosewood.

West

 

[Default]

I think you would dig it. Orpheums are remarkable. When we we in Nashville for the getogether, I got to play one that was so new they hadn't put a pickguard one it yet. More guitar than I could do credit to.

 

[West R Lee]

I'll have to give one a try one day Steve.........I hope Mr. Ferguson does something like the Orpheum in California.

West

 

[twocorgis]

I'll have to give one a try one day Steve.........I hope Mr. Ferguson does something like the Orpheum in California.

West

Jim, I can say unequivocally that they're the best Guilds I've ever played, if not the best new guitars period, and there's a few others here that would agree with me. The Jumbo that I just received the other day (the blue rosette prototype from NAMM 2013) is particularly spectacular. I certainly hope that Cordoba continues production of these, and doesn't change a thing about them, except maybe the case...

 

[adorshki]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the price of a new Guild was ever significantly less than their competition,

In my experience they were, and I've bought 3 new, albeit at great discounts. Gotta admit though the second two were based on my experience with the first and nobody else was even being considered.

In the 60-70's, Guilds were less expensive than the comparable Martin/Gibson.

In late '96 I needed to replace a Korean built Fender acoustic (it was stolen) with a new American built instrument and sticker shock had me paralyzed, until my best buddy (who owned both a '70 Strat and an '87 JF30-12) advised me to seek out some Guilds.
"Fender just bought 'em" he said......
That's how I met my D25.
At a Guitar Center.
$1200.00 list, $999.00 hang tag, and $900.00 "out the door with a case" after a bit of conversation with the salesrep. Not a "haggle", he just offered it to me as one player to another, he was about to quit and go back on the road anyway.
I know it ain't quite that way anymore, for one thing Westerly was crankin' out some production volume and Taylor and Larrivee were barely blips on the radar yet, but if they can get close.....

 

[Appalachian Blues]

Hi West R Lee, hope you're doing well!!

I agree 100% with what you said got Guild it's place in the market. I think to, based on my own experience when looking for a good acoustic in 1975, a lady at Guild went beyond the call of duty for me to find me a lefty D-40. (Swallens in Cincy). They answered the call!! A Martin rep suggested I learn right-handed. Martin has it's reputation on it's place as being the go to guitar for country, and of course their quality. But that experience left a bad taste in my mouth of ever wanting a Martin. Take Care!!

 

[West R Lee]

: ) Hey App, it's been a while. Yes, I remember well back in the 70's when Guilds were a bit cheaper than say a similar Gibson or Martin. Comparable Guilds weren't like half the price of a Martin, but substantially cheaper.

West

 

[Scratch]

Hi West R Lee, hope you're doing well!!

I agree 100% with what you said got Guild it's place in the market. I think to, based on my own experience when looking for a good acoustic in 1975, a lady at Guild went beyond the call of duty for me to find me a lefty D-40. (Swallens in Cincy). They answered the call!! A Martin rep suggested I learn right-handed. Martin has it's reputation on it's place as being the go to guitar for country, and of course their quality. But that experience left a bad taste in my mouth of ever wanting a Martin. Take Care!!

Hey AB!!! Long time no see/hear. How ya been?

 

[Appalachian Blues]

HIYA SCRATCH!!!!!!!!!!! I was hoping you were still on here. I'm doing a-ok, how in the heck have you been? Still in Texas I see. I'm sorry I quit being a regular. Went back to my old job and back to training young folks and we adopted our son Jon. He is 15 now, playing football. He went from being a kid abandoned at 6, becoming street wise to a young man considering his future. Lisa and I are so proud of him, as we are with all our kids. Oldest daughters getting married on our 30th wedding anniversary, Sept. 29th. Main thing is I'm glad to be back on here and seeing West R. Lee, Default, Killdeer43, you and others I'm familiar with, I feel at home. I'm still gigging out here and there and having a good time.

 

[guildman63]

In my experience they were, and I've bought 3 new, albeit at great discounts. Gotta admit though the second two were based on my experience with the first and nobody else was even being considered.

In late '96 I needed to replace a Korean built Fender acoustic (it was stolen) with a new American built instrument and sticker shock had me paralyzed, until my best buddy (who owned both a '70 Strat and an '87 JF30-12) advised me to seek out some Guilds.
"Fender just bought 'em" he said......
That's how I met my D25.
At a Guitar Center.
$1200.00 list, $999.00 hang tag, and $900.00 "out the door with a case" after a bit of conversation with the salesrep. Not a "haggle", he just offered it to me as one player to another, he was about to quit and go back on the road anyway.
I know it ain't quite that way anymore, for one thing Westerly was crankin' out some production volume and Taylor and Larrivee were barely blips on the radar yet, but if they can get close.....

Al,

While you paid $900 out the door, the list price was 33% more than that at $1200, or discounted 25% from list, however you choose to see it. Do yo think that a similar model by Gibson or Martin would have been discounted in a similar manner? Not likely. Why? Because of demand based upon the perception of the masses. Perhaps those out here see Guild as being of equal or greater quality than the major players, and clearly artists like Havens, Denver, Supertramp, America, and many others saw Guilds as the great guitars they are and were willing to play what they loved despite the pressures to have certain names on their instrument, or to be bought out by other companies. However, for every artist that did not cave there were dozens that did. Many in jazz played Guilds early in their careers, but then wound up playing something else for various reasons. Many in rock and pop did as well. I got my first Guild, a Starfire V, around 1981 or 1982, and got a CE-100D the following year, both used. I don't know what they cost new, but I paid around $350 for the Starfire, and $400 for the CE-100D. The equivalent Gibson's? Probably $1200 - $1500 each. Tough decision for a 19 year old? Heck no! But you know what? I sold those great guitars, and then proceeded to buy the Gibson's, Gretsch's, Fenders, etc. as I could afford to. Then, after many years of playing the so-called name brands I realized that not one of them was better than the Guilds I once owned, and when I was old enough to no longer care what others thought of my guitars I got rid of everything and came back to Guild, and might I say in a big way! ride: Ultimately, it doesn't matter how great or inexpensive Guild guitars are if they are not getting in the hands of the guitarists that the young, impressionable kids idolize. John Mayer recently played an AP Aristocrat, and nobody but LTG noticed because it was probably for 1-2 songs, and then he went back to his Fenders and Gibson's. Prices do truly matter for some, but Fender and Gibson/Epiphone have plenty of very affordable options for young kids with no money, and then as they get older the ones that are still playing step up to the higher end models. I had a neighbor last week scoff at my mint X-500 that in my opinion blows every Gibson archtop I have ever played out of the water. When asked if he was interested in buying it he said "if I am going to get a better archtop than what I now have I will get a Gibson". He wouldn't even try my Guild, and likely has never tried any Guild guitars, but he was brainwashed at a young age to think that Gibson is THE brand. CMG and Ren need to figure out how to change public perception, and they have the quality and skills to do that, but not (IMHO) by trying to undercut the big boys as that didn't work before, and it probably won't work this time. It's about marketing and making Guild the go to brand for those that matter--the mega stars. That will then filter down to the kids and the rest of the playing public. Okay, let me get off of my soapbox now as I have said way more than intended, and likely way more than any of you care to read. :witless:

 

[adorshki]

That will then filter down to the kids and the rest of the playing public. Okay, let me get off of my soapbox now as I have said way more than intended, and likely way more than any of you care to read. :witless:

Nah, no worries, I was just trying offer a data point in support of West's post that they were priced lower than M's/G's even into the '90's, even in the new market.
BUT: As soon as I played a few scales I knew I had the best feeling neck I'd ever felt in my life, that it would inspire me. I knew I'd found what I was looking for, and at that price?
Oh yeah, instant fan. I always did love underdogs, too.
Before I met Guild, my two dream electrics would have been an SG because of John Cippolina, or an ES335 because of Larry Coryell and Jorma Kaukonen.
The name on the headstock was secondary to the sounds my heroes were getting out of 'em.
:wink:
Brainwashed snobs? Sure, always gonna be a problem to deal with.
Too bad you couldn't rope him into a good old fashioned cutting contest.
Seems to be the only thing they understand.
:wink:

 

[West R Lee]

But I agree with everything you've said Guildman. These guys around here will tell you that I've been bitching about the lack of marketing by Guild since I joined this website in '05. You're preaching to the choir. : ) Offering great guitars and marketing is a pretty good strategy. A great price would just make them easier to get into more hands

West