Report:Played some new Guilds Today!!!!!

[JimbowF212]

Hey Y'all here is a Report;
I went in Today (10/26) and checked out some new Guilds. A F-50R, a F-40 and a D-55 out of the three I would have to pick the D-55 it had the best sound. I was unimpressed by the F-50R. :shock: I have never played a Westerly one but, I have heard several and I do believe they are superior in tone to the new ones I played today. The D-55 I do believe is as good of a modern dread as I have heard. they were both very well made in craftsmanship and materals but, I was not blown away by either of them. I was totally disinterested and put off by the F-40 it is very weak tone wise to me and it is no where near as good looking as the other two and the price on it was the same as the F-50R both under 2300 the D-55 was 2450. According to the Store manager he went to the Hartford factory and picked out these instruments himself and while I must admit there was a lot of noise in the store at the time, I don't think I would shell out over 2000 for any of the instruments I played, but then again I wouldn't shell out 2000 for any other guitar I can think of either. :mrgreen:

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

What was the F-40 back and sides made of?
The D-40 has an Adirondack top, did the F-40?
Thanks for the report,
TMG.

 

[JimbowF212]

The back & sides on the F-40 were mahogany and the top was one of the bursts I am not sure which. the specs say it is supposed to have the Red or Adirondak spruce top. Any way it wasn't worth the asking price when you could get the F-50R for the same price. Now the F-50R didn't have the Big Tone that I expected it too. You know like the Westerlys have but, the D-55 had about the same sound as a Good Modern Dread should but I am not interested in another Dread as I have that covered but, I would like to be able to get one of the real good Westerly F-50Rs.

 

[Taylor Martin Guild]

Thanks for answering my questions, Jim.
As I understand it, Adirondack need to open up more than other types of spurce.
The top needs to be driven hard to get it to move.
This brings out the best that it had to offer.
For this reason, Adirondack isn't always the best option for a sound board.
They should have used Sitka on the F-40.

 

[JimbowF212]

Hey TMG Check out this link:

http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments ... 0+Valencia

I think They use this type of Spruce on All of their guitars. I wonder if they used this type on the Westerlys???

 

[guildzilla]

Westerly Guilds usually have Sitka Spruce tops. If there are exceptions, I can't recall seeing one.

 

[JimbowF212]

Well, I called the Customer Relations today and was told :mrgreen: FWIW that they Started using Red Spruce in about 2006. With how good the Sitka Spruce tops on my two Martins and the Guild F4-CE that I recently acquired, sound, I can't understand Why they would make this change. I mean we all know that a good guitar will improve with age but, a sitka spruce top doesn't have to cure too much to sound good. The punch of my Martin D-35V with its AAA grade Sitka Spruce top and its Brazilian Rosewood sides & back was both very punchy and bright when I took it down off the wall at the music store and played the first chord on it, that is why I wanted it SO BAD!!!! So I think they should go back to using Sitka and give the Guild Acoustics every chance to relive their Glory days during the time they were made in Westerly. JMHO

 

[chazmo]

Jim,

The Adirondack-topped D-50s that I played from Tacoma were really exceptional. I'm not sure it's the wood species that's the only factor in play here.

Sorry to here that you're not thrilled with the New Hartford products. I guess we'll see how things progress.

 

[Frosty]

One thing to bear in mind is that it is not the goal of all guitar manufacturers to clone Martin. While I do think that a good Martin dreadnought, or copy, may be the ideal bluegrass flatpicking instrument, "punchy" and "bright" may not be attributes some of us look for in a guitar! My preference, for example, is for warmth and balance. I have played a few D-55 guitars that have delivered those goods and I thought them to be excellent guitars. But they would have lost in a decibel shout out with some other guitars.

My $.02 YMMV, etc.

 

[guildzilla]

I agree with you, Jimbow, but at this point we probably need to accept that these are new Guild guitars. What that means in terms of musical facility and quality will be judged over the long haul. I am trying to keep an open mind, but I don't know if my bias can be overcome at this point.

I checked out a new Tacoma Guild D-40 a couple years ago. The dealer raved about its red spruce top and how it contributed to the volume and tone of the guitar. It was impressive, but it also didn't really sound like a Guild to me. Nor did it look like a Guild top as the grain tends to be wider. I was wondering what they would do in Connecticut. It looks like they have increased the use of red spruce.

OTOH, these two 2009 guitars a D-55 and an F-412 - appear to me to have sitka tops.

http://cgi.ebay.com/GUILD-D55-ANTIQUE-B ... 439afc5ffc

http://cgi.ebay.com/GUILD-F412-W-DTAR-1 ... 439afbd722

 

[JimbowF212]

One thing to bear in mind is that it is not the goal of all guitar manufacturers to clone Martin. While I do think that a good Martin dreadnought, or copy, may be the ideal bluegrass flatpicking instrument, "punchy" and "bright" may not be attributes some of us look for in a guitar! My preference, for example, is for warmth and balance. I have played a few D-55 guitars that have delivered those goods and I thought them to be excellent guitars. But they would have lost in a decibel shout out with some other guitars.

My $.02 YMMV, etc.

Well, I can certainly see your point but, I want to be understood. When I say punchy I am talking about the loudness of the instrument. The D-55 had the big robust sound of a typical Dread and the projection was as good as I have heard from a E. I. R. Dread from any company including Martin. I would say that the D bodied Guilds would hold their own with Martins and would out do anything I have heard from Anyone else. the F-50R I played however, did not have the deep boomy tone that I have heard from the Guilds of the past and it certainly was not in the class Projection wise that I recall my F-212 having and since it has a bigger sound chamber I would expect it to be loud and it wasn't. In other words the F-50R had a good tone it just didn't have the projection of the Old Guilds of the past and I think that could have something to do with the top. Since the D-55 had better projection they must have done something different with the top. Oh and BTW My Martin is both warm and very well balanced but it is also bright and loud. But, it is also very exceptional that is why I hang on to it.JMHO FWIW

 

[Frosty]

I was looking for this article by ragtime guitar pioneer Eric Schoenberg on the subject of tone versus roar: http://www.om28.com/notes3.html

A few months back I did get the opportunity to play a new CT D-55 and, yes, I thought it produced a great deal of sound and had good projection. Nice guitar, but in a blindfold test I might not have picked out the sound as belonging to a D-55. At least, not the D-55 guitars I have owned. When it was pointed out elsewhere on LTG that CT had changed some construction specs, well, it confirmed to me that it wasn't simply my imagination.

 

[geoguy]

Great link Frosty . . . glad you posted it.

I remember Eric S. & Guy van Duser playing in the Boston area, back in the day (1970's, I suppose). Both are wonderful players.

- Mark

 

[Frosty]

I remember Eric S. & Guy van Duser playing in the Boston area, back in the day (1970's, I suppose)

Indeed... I was there late 70s early 80s myself.

 

[chicagowineguy]

I too was very disappointed in the F40 I played at CME. It was just...dead-sounding. The D55 was fantastic, though, I thought. But the best CT Guild there that day was the D40. Wow. A Bluegrass cannon for sure.

 

[JimbowF212]

I too was very disappointed in the F40 I played at CME. It was just...dead-sounding. The D55 was fantastic, though, I thought. But the best CT Guild there that day was the D40. Wow. A Bluegrass cannon for sure.

The D-40 was the one they had that I didn't try but, since the D-55 Sounded so good I figured the D-40 would ,too. I should 've played it But, as I said I was there primarily to test the F-50R & the F-40 because as I stated I have the Dreads covered so I was interested in different animules. But, now that TMG has explaned things to me about soundboards I expect these two models would improve and become much different and better over time. And BTW that link was great and what he is saying is how my D-35V Martin sounds. Yes it booms but, it is very well balanced and warm it is not harsh nor brash just sweet, bright and loud and it does lend itself to fingerstyle playing and I play it that way with fingers only no picks when I use a pick with it, it is a flat pick made of heavy gauge nylon.

 

[bluepen]

I agree that the Red (Adi) spruce needs to be played hard to break it in. Of the last four new guitars I've purchased, my D50BS (adi) had the longest "break-in" period.
They can sound "tight" and compressed when new. Kind of a Catch-22 for the maker: it will sound awesome down the road, but doesn't sound as good in the store...

Once it loosened up and I got some 80/20 JP strings on it....HEAVEN!

D-55s are still sitka correct?

 

[JimbowF212]

I

D-55s are still sitka correct?

I am not sure about this as the website is pretty vague about it. I guess you could call and ask them, the number is on the Guild website under customer Relations in Contact. At least that would be what I would do.

 

[Jeff_L]

A few months back I did get the opportunity to play a new CT D-55 and, yes, I thought it produced a great deal of sound and had good projection. Nice guitar, but in a blindfold test I might not have picked out the sound as belonging to a D-55. At least, not the D-55 guitars I have owned. When it was pointed out elsewhere on LTG that CT had changed some construction specs, well, it confirmed to me that it wasn't simply my imagination.

That explains a lot.

I also got to play a CT D-55 a couple of months ago with the idea of trading in my Martin for one. I had played several Tacoma D-55s in the past couple of years and always kicked myself for not getting one, especially after I got the F50R.

The CT D-55 I played was the biggest guitar disappointment I think I've ever had. Yes, it was loud, it "projected", but the tone just was not there. The F50R isn't as loud as the D-55 was, but the notes of a chord have a much more "musical" sound where I found the D-55 to be harsh. There was no string separation, no "shimmer" for lack of a better word. It didn't sound at all like the Tacoma D-55s I'd played in the past.

Needless to say the Ct D-55 stayed in the store and my Martin came back home.

Just one man's opinion,

Jeff