Rare old Guild archtop electric

[guitardan]

I have a rare, old Guild that I've been trying to figure out what it is. I've searched the internet, showed it to friends, no one has ever seen anything like it. It appears to be a Guild neck with Guild hardware, pickups, etc. on a Gibson ES-175 body with a bolted on neck. Inside the guitar you can see a sticker saying Guild Guitars / Guild Musical Instruments. Inside is stamped serial # U3460-26 and the pickups have a patent number on the covers: # 2.683.388. It has three volume controls, top left, where a Les Paul pickup selector switch would be, and each acts as a separate volume control for bridge pickup, neck pickup, or both. There's a master tone control to the right of the pickguard. Pickup selector switch is down by the cutaway, and has weird, toaster knob type switch. I believe all parts are original except for the pickguard and the tuners which were changed to Grover. One dealer told me it may be something that was fabricated, never for sale from Guild. Here are front and back photos.

thanks, Dan

 

[Walter Broes]

Looks like you have a National Belaire electric there. Somebody put a Guild headstock overlay on it - from what I can see in the picture, it doesn't look like it's an actual Guild neck. Google "National Belaire guitar" and you'll find this guitar is closer to stock than it seems, Gibson made body and all.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

Yep, a National with an ES-175 body. The pickups are Valco's fab-sounding "Vista-Tone" single coils. Or at least the covers are from those p'ups as they've got the Valco patent # stamp on 'em. Folks often assume they were copies, form factor-wise, of Gibson's PAF but it was actually more the other way 'round. Valco filed their patent application in 1952.

-Dave-

 

[kakerlak]

I'd be interested in seeing closeups of the headstock and label inside. There's nothing here that suggests the Guild factory had any hand in any aspect of this guitar's construction, however it's surprising that somebody went through the trouble (looks like a long time ago) of reshaping the headstock into a D'Angelico-esque shape, making a Guild logo and wonky Chesterfield in what seems to be multilayer relief and adding a Guild label. I'd enjoy getting a closer look at their work. Weird and cool guitar!

 

[nmiller]

Something's extra-crispy-weird with this guitar. It's definitely close to the Bel-Aire, but the f-holes are mis-shapen, the jack and master volume are in the wrong places, the headstock shape is wrong, and there's a truss rod cover when there shouldn't be one. No amount of modding can explain why there aren't holes in the top where there should be. I think someone got a hold of some parts from the Valco factory and finished a guitar out of them.

 

[kakerlak]

Something's extra-crispy-weird with this guitar. It's definitely close to the Bel-Aire, but the f-holes are mis-shapen, the jack and master volume are in the wrong places, the headstock shape is wrong, and there's a truss rod cover when there shouldn't be one. No amount of modding can explain why there aren't holes in the top where there should be. I think someone got a hold of some parts from the Valco factory and finished a guitar out of them.

Control configuration is a 100% match for this Supro: http://oliviasvintageguitars.com/other/guitars/1502/

I have not seen any with those white plastic dots inlaid as markers next to each knob and assume that's part of the custom work, as is that D'Angelico-style TRC (which I wouldn't be surprised to find is strictly decorational).

 

[nmiller]

Control configuration is a 100% match for this Supro: http://oliviasvintageguitars.com/other/guitars/1502/

Which makes even less sense since there was never officially a Supro version of this model catalogued. Then again, Valco never exactly regarded catalog specs as set in stone.

 

[kakerlak]

Which makes even less sense since there was never officially a Supro version of this model catalogued. Then again, Valco never exactly regarded catalog specs as set in stone.

Yeah, no kidding, and that headstock, which looks like a re-worked wide National headstock, can't have started life as one of those funky little Supro headstocks, which makes me think your "factory leftovers" theory seems likely. I suppose there's a really, really low chance this was a mockup for by the Valco plant as a demo of a budget model for Guild to sell -- they were something of a house brand, after all. Like a "what can you guys make for us," "Thanks, but we've decided not to" kind of scenario.

 

[kakerlak]

Actually, looks like that truss rod cover is screwed all the way through the back of the headstock and neck.

 

[txbumper57]

I think it is definitely a cool old Guitar even though it is not a Guild. I remember not too long ago here on the forum we discussed a Guitar that was not a Guild but was Home transformed by someone into a Bert Weedon Look-a-like. It was pretty obvious that they didn't do the work on it to trick someone or pass it off as an original but was more the situation where the Owner was a Big Bert Weedon fan and probably couldn't afford an Original Weedon model Guild back in the 60's. This could be somewhat of the same situation if the original owner who made the mods couldn't afford the Guild of there dreams years ago so they just made due with what they had by personalizing and modifying it themselves. You can definitely see someone put some time in on the Headstock logo and such. Just an idea of course as always.


TX

 

[nmiller]

Actually, looks like that truss rod cover is screwed all the way through the back of the headstock and neck.

Maybe that's how they spliced on a new headstock. The rest of the neck looks like it belongs with that body.

 

[kakerlak]

Maybe that's how they spliced on a new headstock. The rest of the neck looks like it belongs with that body.

Could be! I actually think that headstock looks right for one of the wide, National-branded Valcos of the era, just re-shaped at the top.

 

[Walter Broes]

Yep, I think it's been refinished, f-holes "reshaped", those white dots next to the controls were done (inlaid?), generic pickguard on it, headstock reshaped and faux-trussrod cover installed. Looks like there are two screws in the neck close to the headstock too...hillbilly repair?

 

[kakerlak]

Yep, I think it's been refinished, f-holes "reshaped", those white dots next to the controls were done (inlaid?), generic pickguard on it, headstock reshaped and faux-trussrod cover installed. Looks like there are two screws in the neck close to the headstock too...hillbilly repair?

I think those screws go all the way through the truss rod cover, out the backside of the headstock, b/c I see a third one up taller, in the middle. ...and they could be a repair, that (resumably) faux TRC could be a reinforcing plate. I think you're right about the reshaped f-holes and inlaid dots.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

If the neck is Valco (I think so) it'll be a bolt-on. No trussrod, rather a hollow magnesium reinforcing tube. (These necks, unless mistreated, are strong and stable.) Removing the strap button and the white plastic cover beneath it should confirm this.

-Dave-

 

[nmiller]

It's actually not a hollow tube, but a solid core of magnesium covered by just a sheath of wood.

 

[Quantum Strummer]

It's actually not a hollow tube, but a solid core of magnesium covered by just a sheath of wood.

Right you are…my bad. In fact my own notes on the subject mention the "huge magnesium bar."

-Dave-