Questions on an earlier D-25BR

[kostask]

Hi,

I recently bought a Guild D-25BR from eBay, as a project (the eBay listing revealed the damage, no issue with that, or the seller). Guitar needs a lot of work (bridge is cracked through the pin holes, needs a neck reset, bad side crack needs to be undone then repaired properly, and one of the back braces is loose). Serial number is 51425 (seems to date to 1970 from Hans' bible, but the label doesn't show a location (i.e. Hoboken, or Westerly), anybody know for sure where it was made?

What I would like some advice on is the replacement of the tuning machines. The current ones are in pretty bad shape, I have tried both lubricating them, and also tried to tighten them up, but they need to be replaced. I tried to identify them, they are open back, 3 on a plate types, with sort of rounded off rectangular buttons. Again, from Hans' book, they could be the Kolb type (based mostly on the shape of the backing plates of the tuners), or what Hans has described as Japanese tuners in his book (I'm tending towards the Japanese tuners). Can somebody suggest a replacement set of tuners? I would have thought the Stew-Mac Vintage Style might be the closest fit, but I"m not sure if everything lines up properly. Has anybody tried this? The other alternative is to go to individual machines, which will leave visible marks on the back of the peghead. I welcome any ideas/advice on this; although my idea is to go for Grover Rotomatics in chrome, 18:1 tuning ratio.

Kostas

 

[hansmoust]

Serial number is 51425 (seems to date to 1970 from Hans' bible, but the label doesn't show a location (i.e. Hoboken, or Westerly), anybody know for sure where it was made?

Hello kostask,

Serial # 51425 would make it an instrument from 1971.
If it has a label without a city/location then it was definitely made in Westerly, R.I.
However, it is very well possible that some of the parts were already started in Hoboken, N.J.
If I look at the serial number, I would think your guitar still has the black centerstrip on the back.
Is that correct?

Again, from Hans' book, they could be the Kolb type (based mostly on the shape of the backing plates of the tuners), or what Hans has described as Japanese tuners in his book (I'm tending towards the Japanese tuners).

On a D-25 from that period they would probably be the 3-on-a-plate Japanese tuners. If they are individual tuners (which would be unusual) they could be 3 different makes of tuners.
I wouldn't try to keep the machineheads original on that guitar. There are many high quality units available these days for very reasonable money.

Good luck!

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[RussD]

Though I've been a big fan of Rotomatics for years, I just installed a set of 3-on-a-plate Waverlys on a customer's upscale classical; they may be the smoothest set of tuners I've ever used... like buttah'! Still haven't gotten over how nice they felt.

Any decent luthier or guitar tech should be able to fill the small holes left if you change tuner styles (for not much money.)

What a fun problem to have!
Just my $.02

 

[kostask]

Hello kostask,

Serial # 51425 would make it an instrument from 1971.
If it has a label without a city/location then it was definitely made in Westerly, R.I.
However, it is very well possible that some of the parts were already started in Hoboken, N.J.
If I look at the serial number, I would think your guitar still has the black centerstrip on the back.
Is that correct?

On a D-25 from that period they would probably be the 3-on-a-plate Japanese tuners. If they are individual tuners (which would be unusual) they could be 3 different makes of tuners.
I wouldn't try to keep the machineheads original on that guitar. There are many high quality units available these days for very reasonable money.

Good luck!

Hans Moust
http://www.guitarsgalore.nl

Hans:

Yes, it has a black centerstrip along with black binding top and bottom. The pickguard is tortoise shell colored, and is beginning to curl up at the edges.
The cap on the neck heel appears to be mahogany. Headstock logo is the peaked gold Guild, either silk screened on, or possibly a decal under the finish.

I think the tuners will need to go. I would really like to put the StewMac vintage 3 on a plate tuners, and I will get to find out if they fit sometime next week, as one of my luthier buddies has a set lying around that we can see about fit with. I have heard about how good the Waverly tuners are, but just cannot justify the cost, so if the StewMac vintage don't fit, I will be going with the chrome 18:1 Rotomatics.

Kostas

 

[Tony Burns]

Curious about what the BR stands for on your guitar - i also own a D-26C ( Red staines-cherry ) im also curious about the best tuners for mine - their OK but the guitar is a wonderful instrument , that great tuners would make stellar !

 

[hansmoust]

Curious about what the BR stands for on your guitar

Hello Tony,

That would be Brown.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

 

[Tony Burns]

Thanks Hans ! kinda been out of the Guild Universe - Havent been up on the Guilds and their designations since the 70's -( when i bought my 71 D-55 used in 1976-77 ) the seventies have been a blur for me . Guess im getting old .

 

[kostask]

Tony:

As Hans said, the BR is for brown, and this is the brown tinting on the top. The back and sides are more reddish. The guitar is all mahogany, top, sides, and back. Being an earlier D-25, it has the flat, braced back, as opposed to the unbraced, arched back of D-25s that came a few years later, and also slightly later than that, changed over to the spruce top. From the discussion here, it seems that most of that went on from 1973, although it seems that there was some transition time. Hans would. of course, have the details nailed down more precisely.

Kostas

 

[kitniyatran]

the seventies have been a blur for me . Guess im getting old .

Just wanted to let you know, while you were "blurred", the '80's, '90's, & most of the first decade of the 2000's passed by, also!

 

[Tony Burns]

the seventies have been a blur for me . Guess im getting old .

Just wanted to let you know, while you were "blurred", the '80's, '90's, & most of the first decade of the 2000's passed by, also!

No reason to be nasty - Im just not up on Guilds and their designations ! Their not as simple as some makers have been -I just bought a D-25C that i love ( as in another post) and have heard about these mahogany top models . I'll be on the look out for one in good shape ! Cheers !

 

[kitniyatran]

I certainly didn't mean my post to be "nasty", just a friendly jab as is often exchanged on this forum. Sorry you took offense, please forgive me.

 

[Tony Burns]

I certainly didn't mean my post to be "nasty", just a friendly jab as is often exchanged on this forum. Sorry you took offense, please forgive me.

OK your forgiven -( Not that you had to ask for it ) anyone who owns a Westerly D-25 NT is Ok in my book . Ive only had my '79 D-25CH for about a week and a half now - It really is a remarkable instrument . Makes me wonder why I spent so much money on other guitars when theirs stuff like this floating around

 

[kitniyatran]

Guy at a local open mike has a recent Gibson L4C that everyone who plays it says is so nice, but he comments how good "that Guild sounds".

 

[kostask]

Hi,

Just wanted to report back that I finally got a chance to check the fit of the 3 on a plate tuner replacements, and they appear to fit fine. I checked the fit against a set of All Parts 3 on a plate Kluson clones, and the posts seem to fit exactly. I will be ordering a set of the Stew-Mac tuners, but my luthier assures me that the Stew-Mac tuners have exactly the same post spacing.

Kostas

 

[Tony Burns]

Hi,

Just wanted to report back that I finally got a chance to check the fit of the 3 on a plate tuner replacements, and they appear to fit fine. I checked the fit against a set of All Parts 3 on a plate Kluson clones, and the posts seem to fit exactly. I will be ordering a set of the Stew-Mac tuners, but my luthier assures me that the Stew-Mac tuners have exactly the same post spacing.

Kostas

Let us know how they work-once you get those babys on- curious about what brand and model number you ordered ?

 

[kostask]

Tony:

I will be ordering Stew-Mac #4095, described as vintage style 3-on-a-plate. They can be seen here:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guit ... uners.html

I don't know who makes the All Parts tuners, but its pretty well known that the Stew-Mac cones are made by Gotoh.

I have used them before on a Harmony Sovereign 1260, and they worked well there.

Kostas