Questions about Novaks and Hipshots

[Default]

No harm, no foul!

 

[thornev]

I owe you an apology, Default/Philly. I didn't realize the image illustrates a coil tap pickup. You may have hit gold ! I am now doing temporary wiring into an amp to see if this wiring will work. I will get it today !

If your diagram shows that only one side of the DPDT is used, couldn't I use an SPST instead of a DPDT? I'll have to find a diagram with an SPST to see if such a pot can choose between 2 circuits. Instead of 6 connectors on a DPDT, an SPST has 2. If they are for on/off of a circuit and not A on/B on for that circuit, then no, SPST won't do.

 

[Default]

In the hand drawn pic, it shows a single pole, double throw switch. Just use one of those, wire the two pickup leads to the outside terminals and the center to the volume pot. It's easier, but you have to drill the bass and I didn't know if you wanted to do that.

 

[Default]

I think you said you have copper tape? May I suggest cutting a soda straw to the length of those leads, covering it with the copper tape, and and grounding that? That's going to be a lot of antenna to pick up stray noise.

 

[thornev]

I wired it up and got the BSDS pickup working with the coil tap feature! It's like Default's drawing in post 60 except the DPDT pot's end lug connections need to be reversed (the volume control was working the opposite of normal i.e. I got full volume on 0 and no volume on 10). I get a mean buzz, but I assume that's because the entire harness is not grounded yet. Also I bypassed most of the circuitry by connecting the pot's output (middle lug) directly to the output jack. Now I just have to test the 3-way and some other things before I solder everything.

Default... The copper tape and straw... You mean put as many leads through the straws as possible? I wasn't getting noise before and all I've added to stock is a new pickup with 3 extra wires which are all ground wires. Given that info, do you still believe the straw idea is needed? I'll play around with the temp wiring and see if I can get rid of the buzz. Maybe an extra ground is needed.

Big win this morning ! Thank you to everyone for your help. I'll keep posting progress.

 

[Default]

Bueno!

 

[thornev]

In the hand drawn pic, it shows a single pole, double throw switch. Just use one of those, wire the two pickup leads to the outside terminals and the center to the volume pot. It's easier, but you have to drill the bass and I didn't know if you wanted to do that.

Drill the bass for what? I'm replacing the pickup's volume control with a push/pull. Isn't that all I need to get the 2 coil taps working? My question is if it can be done with an SPST instead of a DPDT, but at this point I'm satisfied with a DPDT. My only concern is the size when getting it back into the bass. I have a cheaper Bourns (the smallest) and a better CTS (the largest).

 

[fronobulax]

I'm glad I don't have to make the time to pull out my bass and photograph the control cavity and figure out what kind of switch my toggle actually is.

 

[Default]

Drill the bass for what? I'm replacing the pickup's volume control with a push/pull. Isn't that all I need to get the 2 coil taps working? My question is if it can be done with an SPST instead of a DPDT, but at this point I'm satisfied with a DPDT. My only concern is the size when getting it back into the bass. I have a cheaper Bourns (the smallest) and a better CTS (the largest).

I'm fairly certain that you can't get a st/dp push pull switch on a potentiometer. Too limited a market. It makes more sense from a manufacturing viewpoint just to make dt/dp push pull pots, because you can do more with them. That's why I wasn't certain if you were going with a mini-toggle or not. I don't like drilling into vintage anything, but something that is in production and widely available is another story. Personally, I've never drilled into any of my guitars, except to change tuners.

 

[thornev]

Re drilling into guitars... agreed. Maybe on a project guitar that's a mess already, but not on vintage and not on brand spanking sparkling new (which is the case with my Starfire II bass).

So it looks like DPDT it is. Everything seems to work. I just have to get rid of the buzz (grounding issue). I also want to test the ToneStylers which so far seem to work fine.

 

[thornev]

Think I have the SPST pot figured out:

1. RED/full coil from p/u goes to left lug of pot.
2. WHT/coil tap from p/u goes to one of bottom push/pull connectors.
3. GRN, BLK and bare from p/u go to other bottom push/pull connector which also goes to ground.
4. middle lug of pot goes to output jack +.
5. right lug of pot goes to same ground as GRN, BLK and bare p/u wires.

With the above connections, the pot when UP provides the coil tap (treble frequencies cut off). With the pot DOWN you get the full coil (full frequencies).

Sound right? And then the ToneStyler would connect to the RED/HOT lug of the pot.

UPDATE: Thanks to Stellartone Don's guidance I have a better wiring with an SPST push-pull pot. It goes like this:

1. RED/full coil from p/u to left lug of pot.
2. WHT/coil tap from p/u to right side bottom terminal of pot.
3. jumper from left lug of pot (RED/full coil) to left side bottom terminal of pot.
4. middle lug to output jack +.
5. GRN/BLK/bare p/u wires all to guitar ground which includes pot casings and output jack -. No ground wires go to any lugs nor bottom terminals on the push-pull pot.

With the above wiring I get full coil with the pot in the down position and coil tap when it is up. Simple. The beauty of it is that the pot is smaller and hence will fit neatly back through the pickup hole to inside the bass.

I still get some hum, but I'm hoping when everything is properly grounded, the hum will go away.

 

[lungimsam]

This thread is cool and will help people in the future who want to know how to wire a setup like this up!!!

 

[thornev]

In my discussions with Stellartone Don, a very interesting point came up: at what percent of the full coil wrap is the coil tap? And also, which side of the tap sounds better - the tap at the end of the full wrap (i.e. at the 100% point) or the point at which the tap is located (which could be from the 0% point to the 50% point or from 0 to greater than 50%)? I'll have to research that topic. Is it the full coil that is supposed to simulate the original Dark Star pickup or is it the coil tap? Anyone know the answer?

From my testing the coil tap cuts off a lot of the higher frequencies. Is that how the coil tap is supposed to sound?

 

[lungimsam]

Coil Tap option gives you the Darkstar at the tap and the Bisonic with the full coil.
This from the Novak site.

mellow German could tell you how it is supposed to sound.

 

[thornev]

Measured the impedance of the Novak BS-DS in full coil mode = 11.7k.
In coil tap mode = 6.2k.

 

[fronobulax]

I hear the difference in the mids and highs. I have not bothered to figure out which position is the Bisonic and which is the Dark Star. I am not consistent about which one I prefer and my choice does vary based on what I want to do with volume or tone.

 

[lungimsam]

I have a stock push pull volume pot for coil tap on my Gibson Bass and the manufacturer describes it as "to coil tap the pickup scooping the mids for further tone shaping possibilities.".
Its a hum bucker and the tap makes it single coil. Increases noise and hum and pickup sounds quieter and less powerful tapped.
Just a report of what another hum bucker tapped by a push pull results in.
Not that that helps with anything here.

 

[Happy Face]

Wonderful stuff here recently. Real OTAKU-level commentary.

Which I personally don't want or care to understand. But really fun to read!

 

[Default]

Isn't OTAKU that giant owl that fights Godzilla every decade or so?

 

[thornev]

Well today it's been screw up after screwup. The BSDS pickup I soldered up and had the leads reversed so full volume was at 0 (thought I had that sussed in an earlier post - didn't learn my lesson!). Then I unsoldered, reversed the leads and resoldered. Then I realized I pulled the BSDS pickup lead through the F hole. So had to unsolder, get the lead out of the F hole and through the pickup hole and resolder again.

The good news is I had hum and figured out what was wrong. I hadn't soldered one of the volume pot lugs to ground. Now the BSDS pickup is dead quiet and the push-pull function works. So I'm ready to put it all back into the bass. But first I'm going to use some copper tape to shield all signal leads and also use it as the string ground under the bridge plate. Question... Does the copper shielding need to be grounded? I think so. Anyone?

Fun, fun fun !

PS - OTAKU is "a Japanese word that describes people with consuming interests."