Pickups in Newwark St Starfire III

[Walter Broes]

Richly Harmonic, a Guild minibucker is not a Filtertron, not the original ones, not the old ones, they don't sound like a Filtertron. I think that's a good thing - Filtertrons do that weird "quacky" stratty thing, the phase cancellation you get between two identical coils, and I don't like it.

 

[Zelja]

Just saying that I have my preferences for how I want my guitar to drive the amp and the stock bridge pup ain't cutting the mustard.

Od course it's not just the output that's a problem of a lower wind pickup. The tonality will also tend to the bright side which is not what you want/need in the bridge pickup especially when you are trying to balance it with a neck pickup which has a higher wind.

 

[richly harmonic]

I was thinking, for the sake of ease and not having to wait too long for shipping in stock pickups to rewinders (i.e. Radio Shop in UK), what would be a similar pickup to the bridge Guild mini-bucker? Do you think a TV Jones Powertron would come close, or would that be a little too thick or too muddy compared to an actual period-correct, 7.8k bridge Guild mini-bucker?

 

[Walter Broes]

Well, if you're thinking of spending that kind of money, you might as well have the bridge pickup rewound (probably cheaper, check Lindy Fralin, or Curtis Novak, ...), or be patient and buy an original off Ebay when it pops up. (they do, from time to time)

I have a small job at a music store here in town, and we just got in a shipment of Newark Street Guilds. Great guitars for the price, they're beautiful.

We have a Capri, and that has the small buckers too. You can make the pickups balance by jacking up the bridge pickup, and it sounds OK. But it's bright, and it doesn't have the output and grunt I remember from a 64 Starfire IV I used to have.

 

[richly harmonic]

Thanks for the quick replies and thoughts, guys.

I just sent an email to Cutis Novak earlier today, requesting how much it would cost to send and have him rewind a Guild MB pup to vintage specs. I'm still waiting for his reply.

In the meantime, I was wondering, what would it be like if I used a bridge Dynasonic (TVJ T-armond or Dearmond equivalent), since the earlier Starfire III's from 1960-1963 had the Dearmond/Dyna type single coils. I'm thinking tone will be a little different, but how much different? And a "Tele on steroids" isn't enough to describe it to me. I've heard other descriptions as well..."super glassy, but with bite and growl"..."super twangy and sparkly"....

Do you think TVJ T-Armond bridge pup would match well with a Guild neck MH pup? Or if not, at least what would the tonal combination from pup to pup be like, especially when in dual pickup mode?

\\ I've read from other "esoteric" sources online that a T-Armond or Dynasonic, one would tend to think of the lead riff in "Baby Please Don't Go" by Them.\\

\\ Similarly when I think of the Guild MH, I tend to think of the "Laugh Laugh - Live Shindig 1965" by Beau Brummels.\\

But....erhh...I'm not sure how accurate these descriptions of these sounds are, is as it's subjective to the old recordings compared to today's recording technology. Hard to say what they actually sound like in real life.

Anybody with some experience of Dynasonics vs Guild Mini-bucker tones, feel free to chime in?

Again, thank you everybody, for the thoughts and advise so far. Let's keep the thoughts on rollin'.


-- RH

P.S. That TV Jones T-Armond in Filtertron mount looks pretty darn tempting to me in the moment!

P.P.S. 'course I'll be dealing with a different sound when it comes to the Dyna, but am I getting into "tonal trouble" here?

 

[Default]

Last time I heard from Curtis, it was $60 a coil, iirc.

 

[richly harmonic]

Wow! That's actually quite reasonable, plus international shipping to the general East Asia region (I'm guessing maybe $35 to $40), I could be totally off though...

Plus another $60-$100 worth of customs and duties/taxes (in China)....well that'd be around $160 to about $200....errrhhh...still not bad considering the proposition, and the request; the kind of pickup that's being re-wound. It just may very well be worth it.

 

[Default]

Really depends if you want to wait and pick one up for <$100 as a Cordoba spare part. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm supposed to be getting some bridge pups at the end of this month. If they have been corrected, that would be a cheaper option.

 

[richly harmonic]

Well, I'll definitely keep the Guild spare pickups option in mind also, as that would be a more "accurate" route to take; assuming the pickups are corrected by the then.

On the other hand, I wonder what a TV Jones T-Armond (Filtertron mount) would sound like in the bridge (bridge pup, wound at around 11k)? Overly glassy? Too explosive/bassy? Not enough snarl or growl?

 

[Walter Broes]

I don't think a DeArmond/T-Armond would match a neck humbucker very well.

But, being the single coil guy that I am, two T-Armonds would be very nice - I have an old SFIII with DeArmonds, and it's a killer guitar. And DeArmonds cover up the humbucker rout, so no need to get the Filtertron mounts.
I've asked the folks at TV Jones, and they do white tops if you ask them.

 

[richly harmonic]

So do you think with the Dynasonics, I'd still be able to pull off the Beau Brummels 'snarly, growly twangle-jangle' like on the "Laugh Laugh live shindig"...pretty well? Or not so much?

 

[Walter Broes]

Oh, if you have the amp to match, absolutely! DeArmonds are not just twangy Rockabilly/Duane Eddy pickups, they're fairly high output, and plenty rude!

 

[richly harmonic]

So I guess a Vox AC4 HW or AC15 HW, with AlNiCo blues, would be a doctor's order, I suppose? Or maybe a vintage-spec Fender PR or DR or equivalent? Or maybe even a vintage Ampeg Gemini I or II (doubt anyone is willing to ship that overseas outside of the States easily, though).

Let's see, I'll start peeling pedals off the flower...she loves Dynas, she loves Guild-minis, she loves Dynas, she loves Guild-minis, she loves...

 

[Default]

Get both, lol!

 

[richly harmonic]

Hah! Well, if I had the cash and the means, I'd definitely get both amps! On the other hand, I could only really afford one for the ever so distant "near future". I'm kinda leaning toward the Vox because we all know what happens when a Vox and a Starfire go together... but then again, we all know what a Starfire can sound like with a Fender as well...whew! Tough call here!

I'll be fine, though. Either of those amps would be a good first "pro-choice" though, lol!

But man, a Vox AC4HW (or AC15HW) w/ AlNiCo blues, and a Mergilli Major Enhancement valve-driven outboard Trem/Verb unit... and a analog or tape echo...that's just Cloud 9 to me!...but throw a fuzz and/or wah pedal...psychedelia...heavy...whoah, look out!!!

 

[Twangman66]

All of the bridge minibuckers are wound wrong. I have this straight from gurujr. Fender is such a big corporation that NOBODY checked them. They just bought a pair from ebay and nobody checked them. When we checked them here and found out that the bridge pup was fuxxored, it caused chaos at Scottsdale.

I have this from the horses mouth and I made sure that Oxnard knew about it.

There are other developments in the works at Oxnard and I have no doubt this will be rectified.

Hi Default,
I live in the UK and have an 8-month old FMIC NS Starfire V and have had a lot of trouble trying to balance the neck & bridge pickups to achieve the 'vintage' Starfire tone that I was hoping for. Using a digital multimeter the pickups measure (in-situ) 6.92K neck and 5.02K bridge. Do you know if FMIC will be offering a free exchange service for the faulty bridge pickups? If so, who do I contact in the UK about this. I would be very grateful for any information you can give me as the guitar bridge pickup has a definite Telecaster twang and doesn't sound 'right' at the moment; many thanks for your help.

 

[Synchro]

While I can't complain about the pickup balance on my Starfire III the T-400 had its first public outing a week ago and the bridge pickup was wimpy. I was able to work around it by diming the volume for the bridge pickup and running the neck between 7 & 8 bit I'm definitely disappointed, especially considering that this is a $4,800 guitar.

JMO, I'd be surprised if Fender does anything for us on this one. Guild is part of their past and they can stick to their guns and insist that these are to spec. Córdoba has shown interest in correcting the problem in future production but they aren't likely to come to the rescue of persons that bought Guilds from FMIC. My guess is that they will eventually build bridge pickups to a realistic spec and, hopefully, the price of buying these as a replacement part will be reasonable. I'll be on the hook for three of them myself, T-400, Capri and Starfire III.

 

[Default]

I'm sure it's going to be corrected. I have three pickups incoming, still waiting to see if they got shipped. When they get here, i'll measure then on a meter.

 

[Synchro]

I'm sure it's going to be corrected. I have three pickups incoming, still waiting to see if they got shipped. When they get here, i'll measure then on a meter.

Where are you getting the pickups? Fender? Córdoba? Aftermarket? I'm very interested.

 

[Zelja]

I'm sure it's going to be corrected.

I still can't believe that they made this mistake & went to production like this. Surely you don't base a whole reproduction line based on a sample size of one? The worst thing for me is that it goes against all logic. Back then the bridge & neck were basically wound similarly AFAIK, so generally they would be close. Tolerances in manufacturing were not super stringent and as a result either pickup could be a few percent stronger or weaker than the other - pot luck really. Seems to me a conscience decision to wind pickups differently for better inherent balance only came with the aftermarket pickup manufacturers in the mid-late 70's/early 80s?

Personally when these re-issue lines are done I wouldn't mind if they did update these things like pickup balance instead of slavishly following some of the specs. The easiest thing to do is to just underwind the neck by 5 or so percent compared to the bridge. The pickups could even come with two taps on the coil (easiest with single coils but possible with HBs as well) such that you could choose which way to go - e.g vintage correct (both pickups same strength) or modern (e.g. neck a little lower than vintage, bridge a little higher than vintage).