Pickup for a nylon string. Kremona?

[silverfox103]

I have two Guild Mark guitars. I would like to install a pickup on the Mark V. No cutting or drilling allowed, under any condition!

I have tried the Shadow pickup, but it raises the strings to high. I have stumbled on to the Kremona: http://www.kremonausa.com/index.php?mod ... 23&main=12
It looks like it could be the answer. On different boards people seem to be happy with it.

I am kind of a dinosaur when it come to pickups, pre-amps, equilizer and piezo etc. I understand nothing. Can I plug this directly into the amplifier. Do I need any other stuff? It says to plug it into a high impedance input? I have a 30 year old fender tube amp and a 30 year old Peavey amp. The Peavy has a high and a low gain imput (whatever that means).

thanks for any help

Tom

 

[markus]

If you don't want to drill give those AKG C411 a try.
(If your stage is not too loud and phantom power is provided!)
Markus

 

[fronobulax]

Should work. Shouldn't need anything else although if the PU goes right into an amp then you will have to adjust the amp if you have feedback problems. Probably not worth getting a pre-amp just to have a volume control hanging off your belt, IMO.

High and low gain usually means plug a passive PU (no battery, no pre-amp) into the high gain and an active PU into low gain. I believe that for practical purposes the hi gain input on the Peavey and the high impedance input required by the Pu are one and the same. I await CapnJuan's learned opinion :wink:

 

[capnjuan]

Hi Tom; if that pickup is right for your guitar, yes, you can plug it into an amp. However, what comes out of the amp might not please you. A little discussion about tube amps and acoustic guitars. We have a number of members who play out ... everything from open-mics to paying gigs ... with their acoustic guitars and the simple facts of electronic life are that - with exceptions - 25-50 watt transistor acoustic guitar amps ... small Marshalls, Fender Acoustisonics, and a few others ... with their built-in effects ... and without an intervening preamp, do better than do run-of-the-mill tube amps.

The principle exception in older tube amps are Sanos which are notable for their sensitive inputs and suppression of grit ... they run relatively free of distortion and use tweeters and cross-overs to protect the high frequency output. Transistor amps do a better job of producing more air around the notes, less flubbiness in the bass, more articulation in the highs, and less prone to mush out when you hammer down on the strings. Regardless of how sensitive and accurate your new pickup is, I don't think you're going to be happy using either of your old tube amps. Most passive pickups ... those not having an on-board amplifier powered by a 9-volt battery ... do not produce a strong enough signal to drive (excite) the front end of most tubes amps ... not guitar amps anyway.

A 'high impedance' input has higher resistance between signal and ground to prevent low amplitude signal from leaking; a high impedance input is primarily for microphones that produce a weaker signal than do the pickups on an electric guitar. In the case of your Peavey ... and since it was made well after the days of a several man-boys standing around a 1960s swimming pool all plugged into the same amp, sharing the microphone, and struggling through 'Louie Louie' ... chances are its 'high gain' input refers not just to preventing signal loss to ground (higher impedance), it refers to the amount of amplification caused by the first preamp section. That channel is usually the 'lead' guitar channel where the circuit is running the preamp tubes closer to distortion and its output is biased towards the higher frequencies.

So ... waddya saying Juan? I'm not sure either of your amps - without an intervening preamp - is going to do right by your nylon strings. Even with a preamp, still not sure you're going to be happy. What you want ... I think ... is more of what you have ... same fine tone but only louder ... Fenders and Peaveys can do loud but not sure either can do tone. It's not so much about the strength or quality of the input signal, it's about the weaknesses of work-a-day tube guitar amps.

 

[silverfox103]

Hmmm, well it's sounds as if my amps are dinosaurs like me. Actually Juan, the Peavey is an electronic amp, at least I can't see any tubes. It might be a shade under 30 years old.

I have an Alvarez Yairi CY127, which is nylon electric. It plays pretty good through the Fender tube amp, I haven't tried it through the Peavey. I would be using the amplification for my own, in the house, benefit only.

Would a new amp solve my woes?


thanks everyone

Tom C.

 

[capnjuan]

Hmmm, well it's sounds as if my amps are dinosaurs like me. Actually Juan, the Peavey is an electronic amp, at least I can't see any tubes. It might be a shade under 30 years old. I have an Alvarez Yairi CY127, which is nylon electric. It plays pretty good through the Fender tube amp, I haven't tried it through the Peavey. I would be using the amplification for my own, in the house, benefit only. Would a new amp solve my woes?

Hi Tom; everybody has their own sense of what's acceptable and it isn't my place to tell you that what pleases you isn't any good; I'm mostly summarizing the experience of others when it comes to making acoustic guitars louder and pointing out why a lot of people think tube amps fall short of the mark. Does the Alvarez have an active (powered) pickup or passive pickup?

The reason for mentioning the modern acoustic amps is that, apart from doing a good job with acoustic guitars, they usually have lots of built-in functions; reverb, chorus and have effects loops ... they offer lots of different tone characteristics for pretty short money that straight-ahead tube ... and early transistor amps ... don't have. But if you're getting a good result with the Alvarez and it doesn't have a powered pickup, well ... you're ready for Alice Tully Hall!

 

[fronobulax]

My Peavey circa 1974 is definitely solid state.

Two issues - will PU work with existing amps and will you be happy with it? I'm guessing the answers are yes and probably not, which suggests you may want to look for a new amp.

That said, however, if you can get the PU with a return option you could always but it, try it and then decide whether you need a different PU, different amp or both.

 

[evenkeel]

I can't tell you all the technical reasons why the combo of tube amps and acoustic guitars (nylon or steel strung) do not work. But years of playing and listening support the good captains remarks. That wonderful tone of tube amp and electric guitar, P-90's, single coils, humbuckers whatever just works. Run an acoustic guitar thru the same amp, even on a clean setting, just does not sound natural. Words like harsh, metallic, crunchy come to mind although describing tone is a messy business.

If you do not mind a chord dangling from the front then a soundhole mounted pickup (Seymour Duncan, Dean markley, Fishman) is an option. I'm not wild about them, the chord is a deal breaker for me.

Another option is this clamp on mic system from K&K.
http://www.kksound.com/meridian.html
I've never heard one so cannot attest to the sound quality. Conceptually however this shoul dgive you a very good, natural acoustic tone.

 

[silverfox103]

Juan the Alvarez Yairi has an active (powered) pickup.

Well, I just played the guitar with both amps. Actually the sound out of both amps was very acceptable, in fact the best was the Fender tube, it was clean and clear. On the Peavey with the low gain was close to the Fender. On high gain it had a little more electric sound to it, but OK. All in all, I would say I was pleased.

Now that I think of it, I had a Martin 00-28C nylon with a Shadow pickup, which is basically the same thing as the Kremona. I didn't have any problems with that either. So, I might gamble on buying a Kremona pickup for $63. And like you suggested Frono, I will check on the return policy. I will also start looking at amps.

thanks everyone for your help

Tom C.

 

[capnjuan]

Okay; good luck with your choice of pickups!

 

[avagadro]

looks like a good pre-amp could help make things right, I think there are some available with effects. I've used a Barcus Berry for many years and the output was just too low without a pre-amp.

 

[Steelpickin']

This works well with any pickup/amp combination I have tried.