Occam's Razor

[chazmo]

Anyone else a Philosophy buff out there?

In college, besides getting a major in the subject along with my Computer Science major, I became fascinated with the history and theory of logic and reasoning. Of course, as a programmer, I spend my life working within the bounds of digital logic, so there was always more to it for me than just casual interest.

Anyway, recently at work, I came up with a theory for something one of my customers is running into. This theory was simple, elegant, and fit the facts. Unfortunately, it was wrong.

As many of you know, Occam's Razor is a means for choosing among different theories. Basically, the simplest theory is the best theory. But Occam's Razor is a guideline, not an axiom of science. My experience at work has given me pause in the last few weeks because usually Occam works for me!

I just spent about an hour reading through the wikipedia page on Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor) and I found it fascinating. Some of you may too. In my years since college, Occam's has apparently been fertile ground in many disciplines of science. Competing theories in Physics and particularly Astronomy in recent years have become absolutely fascinating to me.

I hope you enjoy that wikipedia article as much as I.

 

[killdeer43]

You could say that I was a fan of the concept of KISS long before there was a band (?) by the same name. Simple is as simple does.

I find the entire concept of the razor to be an endless source of fascination in my ongoing pursuits as a naturalist and a writer. But then, it seems that it creeps into other facets of my life as well, like photography and even playing my guitar, working on new songs, etc. Lots of applications. :wink:

I'll have to check out the Wiki article, so thanks for posting the link.

Cheers,
Joe

 

[Qvart]

Anyone else a Philosophy buff out there?

...But Occam's Razor is a guideline, not an axiom of science.

Yeah, it's basically the idea that - all other things being equal - the simplest explanation/theory tends to be the best. That's vastly oversimplifying the concept, but there ya go.

You might be interested in reading about Karl Popper and falsifiability too (basically, the better theories are the ones that set themselves up the most to being potentially disproven, i.e., theories with no or little possibility of being proven false are suspect, or pseudoscience).

It's way too early in the morning for this, but you just opened a can of worms. I have a degree in Philosophy (and History). I don't read or study much of either anymore, but both disciplines are ingrained in me - which makes election seasons, most of what's on TV, and listening to other people talk about their opinions on various issues like feel suffering the tortures of the damned. :lol:

Try looking up a list of common fallacies. If everyone studied a little bit of logic, our public discourses, politics, etc, would be much different than they are today. But where's the fun it that?! :lol:

BTW: frono - if you're reading this - I finally got that book you recommended (but I'm not very far into it yet).

Now off to work, lest I want to have deep thoughts about unemployment. :lol:

 

[chazmo]

QV,

Popper and other modern philosophers are mentined and discussed as part of the wiki article. In fact, the razor seems to even pre-date Aristotle. Have a look sometime. Might be rehashing old ground for you. It'd sure been a while since I'd given it much thought.

Now off to work for me too... Wifey's taking me to see Boz Scaggs this evening. Yet another subject about which I haven't thought much in recent years.

 

[chazmo]

You could say that I was a fan of the concept of KISS long before there was a band (?) by the same name. Simple is as simple does.

I find the entire concept of the razor to be an endless source of fascination in my ongoing pursuits as a naturalist and a writer. But then, it seems that it creeps into other facets of my life as well, like photography and even playing my guitar, working on new songs, etc. Lots of applications. :wink:

I'll have to check out the Wiki article, so thanks for posting the link.

Cheers,
Joe

Good stuff, Joe!!! KISS it is, and I don't mean the band.

 

[southernGuild]

Wifey's taking me to see Boz Scaggs this evening. Yet another subject about which I haven't thought much in recent years.

Sounds like a good night is one the cards. Enjoy Chaz.

 

[Qvart]

QV,

Popper and other modern philosophers are mentined and discussed as part of the wiki article. In fact, the razor seems to even pre-date Aristotle. Have a look sometime. Might be rehashing old ground for you. It'd sure been a while since I'd given it much thought.

Now off to work for me too... Wifey's taking me to see Boz Scaggs this evening. Yet another subject about which I haven't thought much in recent years.

I just skimmed the wiki page. Too bleary-eyed that early to focus. I always think of Popper when I think of Occam. Popper's a good read too.

Enjoy the show!

 

[griehund]

QV,

Popper and other modern philosophers are mentined and discussed as part of the wiki article. In fact, the razor seems to even pre-date Aristotle. Have a look sometime. Might be rehashing old ground for you. It'd sure been a while since I'd given it much thought.

Now off to work for me too... Wifey's taking me to see Boz Scaggs this evening. Yet another subject about which I haven't thought much in recent years.

Looking forward to a deep discussion of Lido Shuffle theory.

 

[killdeer43]

I just skimmed the wiki page. Too bleary-eyed that early to focus.

That's a tough page to skim. So many interesting links that I'm "bleary-eyed" from the past couple of hours of reading. :lol:

*Great food for thought on a rainy Monday morning.

Joe

 

[geoguy]

Without having read that wiki article, my understanding of Occam's Razor is with respect to deciding which of two (or more) possible explanations for a natural phenomenon is most likely to be correct.

Perhaps your client's issue wasn't exactly something occuring in nature, Chazmo . . . I think Occam's Razor can safely be tossed into the circular file if you're trying to find an explanation for human behavior, or something manmade.

 

[walrus]

Hey, there's not many bands playing "simpler" chords than KISS! Maybe they are really philosophers at heart (but I doubt it).

walrus

 

[killdeer43]

I think Occam's Razor can safely be tossed into the circular file if you're trying to find an explanation for human behavior, or something manmade.

To a great extent, I offer a heartfelt AMEN! 8)

Joe

 

[adorshki]

I think Occam's Razor can safely be tossed into the circular file if you're trying to find an explanation for human behavior, or something manmade.

To a great extent, I offer a heartfelt AMEN! 8)
Joe

Actually ya could explain all human behavior with a single motivation: greed.
Greed covers simple lust, and the lust for power, and even altruism which is the lust to do nice stuff for complete strangers.
So that would cover religion too.
(insert irony emoticon here)

 

[killdeer43]

(insert irony emoticon here)

Trying to imagine what that would look like. :?:

Joe

 

[adorshki]

(insert irony emoticon here)

Trying to imagine what that would look like. :?:
Joe

Gotta admit I keep gripin' about not havin' one but I'm too greedy to try to make one myself.....

 

[killdeer43]

(insert irony emoticon here)

Trying to imagine what that would look like. :?:
Joe

Gotta admit I keep gripin' about not havin' one but I'm too greedy to try to make one myself.....

So, we're looking for the face of irony....hmmm. :?

Joe

 

[adorshki]

So, we're looking for the face of irony....hmmm. :?
Joe

Why do I have this funny feeling you're tying to tell me something?
It's about Ockham and the church, isn't it?
I knew I shoulda stayed away from that religious reference.
I'm a b-a-a-d postbot.

 

[chazmo]

Well, I'd think that unless you're a scientist and a philosophy professor, that page isn't an easy read. It's just a great summary of the subject.

Oh, hey, Mark... My customer situation was about a computer failure. The question was whether we were having a software problem or a battery failure. The battery failure theory fit the evidence, was easy to fix, and made sense. It was wrong. My use of the razor was simply to believe it to be the correct theory, go on site to try and prove it, and ultimately to prove myself wrong. The only competing theory is a complicated software problem which Occam didn't even let me think about initially.

Yeah, when we're talking about non-science though, Occam is pretty useless.

 

[griehund]

Well, I'd think that unless you're a scientist and a philosophy professor, that page isn't an easy read. It's just a great summary of the subject.

Oh, hey, Mark... My customer situation was about a computer failure. The question was whether we were having a software problem or a battery failure. The battery failure theory fit the evidence, was easy to fix, and made sense. It was wrong. My use of the razor was simply to believe it to be the correct theory, go on site to try and prove it, and ultimately to prove myself wrong. The only competing theory is a complicated software problem which Occam didn't even let me think about initially.

Yeah, when we're talking about non-science though, Occam is pretty useless.

Yeah but how was Boz Scaggs?

 

[chazmo]

Boz has a great band behind him, and I really like the fact that he wasn't pandering to musical tastes that have changed since he came up. He played lots of blues and a few of his well known songs. His new stuff has some of the characteristics of his old stuff, and I liked it all.

Overlal, I really enjoyed it.