NEWBIE!!HELP! Jersey? Island? Fender? Starfire II's &III'S

Turd Fergusen

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Howdy all and I'm pleased to be a part of the forum! As I'm looking for a vintage (and American) Starfire II or III, I am curious of the build quality, finishes, playability of these models and where the "best" ones are made? Pristine condition is nice, but played and in stable condition is fine too. Let's hear some feedback! Thanks again!
 

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Welcome. Spend some time searching and looking through old threads. There are lots of opinions out there.
 

jp

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Hi, Turd and welcome to the forum.

Sorry about the delayed response. I think many have shied away from answering because this requires quite a lengthy response. As GAD explains, if you search the forum, you'll discover that this has been asked and answered multiple times.

To quickly summarize, Starfires have been produced for decades since the early 60s, and each era has its own characteristics -- differing appointments, finishes, tuners, neck profiles, pickups, tailpieces, bridges, and build characteristics. There are excellent examples from each era depending on your tastes. Imagine asking the same question about Stratocasters or Les Pauls, and what kind of answers that would require. The same applies here.

I would also suggest getting some general ideas about a few eras of Starfires on GADs blog.

Good luck! If you have any more specific inquiries about a certain era of Stafire, try again, and we'll do our best to answer.
 

BradHK

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All of the suggestions above are great and there are tons of information on LTG through the search function. Just a couple general thoughts/comments. I am sure I missed something or got something wrong so I am sure I will be corrected.

There was no period that I would view as better or worse build quality for US made Starfires. They are all great quality. The older versions (1960 through early 1970’s) are the lightest builds. The standard pickups used (timelines are close) were DeArmonds first, Guild anti-hums (1963-1970), Guild HB1 (1971-1996), Seymour Duncan SD-1 (1997-1998), then the Fender humbuckers until production ended. Nut width varied but around 1970 through the early 1990’s it was generally 1 5/8”. The last few years were usually 1 11/16” and the early years were anywhere from 1 5/8” to 1 11/16” but could be more narrow or wider depending upon the guitar (I have a 1961 with a 1 3/4” nut). I believe all versions can be found with either a laminated mahogany body or laminated maple. Sometimes the color was matched to a wood type (cherry transparent usually to Mahogany for example). Early versions had nitro finish and the later versions went to poly. Not sure exactly when but I thought sometime in the 1990’s. Starfire III is the same as the Starfire II other than the Guildsby and matching rocking bridge.

I would recommend finding some and playing them but I know this can be hard with Guilds. The older ones are generally more expensive and can have more issues that might need repairs due to the age and previous owners “fixing” things. whatever you choose you really can’t go wrong with any year US built Starfire II or III. Good luck on the hunt!
 

Turd Fergusen

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Hi, Turd and welcome to the forum.

Sorry about the delayed response. I think many have shied away from answering because this requires quite a lengthy response. As GAD explains, if you search the forum, you'll discover that this has been asked and answered multiple times.

To quickly summarize, Starfires have been produced for decades since the early 60s, and each era has its own characteristics -- differing appointments, finishes, tuners, neck profiles, pickups, tailpieces, bridges, and build characteristics. There are excellent examples from each era depending on your tastes. Imagine asking the same question about Stratocasters or Les Pauls, and what kind of answers that would require. The same applies here.

I would also suggest getting some general ideas about a few eras of Starfires on GADs blog.

Good luck! If you have any more specific inquiries about a certain era of Stafire, try again, and we'll do our best to answer.
I understand and thank you! I was just hoping to create some healthy discourse.
 

Turd Fergusen

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All of the suggestions above are great and there are tons of information on LTG through the search function. Just a couple general thoughts/comments. I am sure I missed something or got something wrong so I am sure I will be corrected.

There was no period that I would view as better or worse build quality for US made Starfires. They are all great quality. The older versions (1960 through early 1970’s) are the lightest builds. The standard pickups used (timelines are close) were DeArmonds first, Guild anti-hums (1963-1970), Guild HB1 (1971-1996), Seymour Duncan SD-1 (1997-1998), then the Fender humbuckers until production ended. Nut width varied but around 1970 through the early 1990’s it was generally 1 5/8”. The last few years were usually 1 11/16” and the early years were anywhere from 1 5/8” to 1 11/16” but could be more narrow or wider depending upon the guitar (I have a 1961 with a 1 3/4” nut). I believe all versions can be found with either a laminated mahogany body or laminated maple. Sometimes the color was matched to a wood type (cherry transparent usually to Mahogany for example). Early versions had nitro finish and the later versions went to poly. Not sure exactly when but I thought sometime in the 1990’s. Starfire III is the same as the Starfire II other than the Guildsby and matching rocking bridge.

I would recommend finding some and playing them but I know this can be hard with Guilds. The older ones are generally more expensive and can have more issues that might need repairs due to the age and previous owners “fixing” things. whatever you choose you really can’t go wrong with any year US built Starfire II or III. Good luck on the hunt!
Thanks! My curiosity is definitely with nitro more due to the feel than the tone (not to open another can of worms!) I haven't been able to find an old one to play, but the variables of nut width isn't a concern as I have guitars that vary. It really is about tone. BTW, I do like the idea about lightweight as I've had 6 spine surgeries. I do know about most of the PUPs except the "Mickey Mouse", any insight? Thanks.
 

Fender1980

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1966 Starfire 2 thoughts...

Very light build

Resonant when unamplified...cool

Really cheap tuners

Fun pickups

I "think" many of them have somewhat non-ideal action high up on the fretboard

You can take out the "wheels" on the bridge to lower the action further.
 

Turd Fergusen

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1966 Starfire 2 thoughts...

Very light build

Resonant when unamplified...cool

Really cheap tuners

Fun pickups

I "think" many of them have somewhat non-ideal action high up on the fretboard

You can take out the "wheels" on the bridge to lower the action further.
Will truss rod adjust help as well?
 

adorshki

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Will truss rod adjust help as well?
Truss rod doesn't affect neck angle and only affects action as a very limited side effect of flattening the neck. It's embedded in the neck heel, not the body, so if the neckset is sub-optimal the truss can't change it.

That's why all the action lowering to delay a neck re-set is focused on the saddle/bridge (and nut slots if needed).
 
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BradHK

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Thanks! My curiosity is definitely with nitro more due to the feel than the tone (not to open another can of worms!) I haven't been able to find an old one to play, but the variables of nut width isn't a concern as I have guitars that vary. It really is about tone. BTW, I do like the idea about lightweight as I've had 6 spine surgeries. I do know about most of the PUPs except the "Mickey Mouse", any insight? Thanks.
My preference is the 1960’s Starfire II and III and I like the 1966 or older ones before they switched over to the Japanese tuners. I am also a fan of the earlier 1960’s necks. The anti-hum pickups and DeArmonds both sound great in the hollow Starfires. The Mickey Mouse was not used as a standard pickup in the starfires but was used in the T-100 and T-100D which essentially is the same body as the Starfire II and III. The Mickey Mouse pickups are a little more bright and thin to my ears. My preference are the DeArmonds, anti-hums and frequency tested pickups (chrome top P90 looking pickup from around 1963-64 that can be found in T-100 and other Guilds). To my untrained ears, the frequency tested pickups lean more toward a smoother souding low output P90, the anti-hum is a clean sounding humbucker that is smooth but also has a wonderful chime in a hollow guitar, and the DeArmonds have that thick single coil sound with great attack, All different but all great. It really depends upon what sound you are seeking.
 

Turd Fergusen

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Truss rod doesn't affect neck angle and only affects action except as a very limited side effect of flattening the neck. It's embedded in the neck heel, not the body, so if the neckset is sub-optimal the truss can't change it.

That's why all the action lowering to delay a neck re-set is focused on the saddle/bridge (and nut slots if needed).
I appreciate your input. I usually work with truss rod, bridge and nut to get the ideal set up.
 

Turd Fergusen

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My preference is the 1960’s Starfire II and III and I like the 1966 or older ones before they switched over to the Japanese tuners. I am also a fan of the earlier 1960’s necks. The anti-hum pickups and DeArmonds both sound great in the hollow Starfires. The Mickey Mouse was not used as a standard pickup in the starfires but was used in the T-100 and T-100D which essentially is the same body as the Starfire II and III. The Mickey Mouse pickups are a little more bright and thin to my ears. My preference are the DeArmonds, anti-hums and frequency tested pickups (chrome top P90 looking pickup from around 1963-64 that can be found in T-100 and other Guilds). To my untrained ears, the frequency tested pickups lean more toward a smoother souding low output P90, the anti-hum is a clean sounding humbucker that is smooth but also has a wonderful chime in a hollow guitar, and the DeArmonds have that thick single coil sound with great attack, All different but all great. It really depends upon what sound you are seeking.
They all sound cool with their own personalities! Are the Mickey Mouse made by DeArmond?
 

Shakeylee

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i would add T-100Ds to your shopping list
my own preference would be early 60s with dearmonds , but i think all years of hoboken and westerly are good.

if you play rockabilly or bluesabilly the single coil versions are great
 

Fender1980

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Will truss rod adjust help as well?
I've replaced the original bridge with "bridge cups" from the current Guild models which are available from Cordoba Music (current Guild) for $8.00.

It gets the action pretty ideal without shaving down the original bridge or spending the money on the neck reset.
 

jp

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Some other thoughts:

i would add T-100Ds to your shopping list
my own preference would be early 60s with dearmonds , but i think all years of hoboken and westerly are good.

if you play rockabilly or bluesabilly the single coil versions are great
T-100Ds use the same superstructure as the maple Starfires I, II, and III (most 60s SFs are mahogany) but with fewer appointments--fewer finishes, dot inlays, top binding only, cheaper tuners, wooden bridge, and harp tailpiece. They were produced from 1958 up to about 1973. They came first with Franz PUS which are like slightly underwound P90s with a lot of punch and spank -- great sounding PUs that are very sought after. They also had Mickey Mouse PUs, especially in the mid-60s, but they also have been seen with a variety of other single coil PUs and later with humbuckers.

I know you mentioned interest in the 60s Starfires, but some of the best deals you can find are the Fender-era Starfires built in Westerly, RI and Corona, CA. They are generally heavier builds than 60s variations, have beefier neck profiles, and are poly-finished. However, they are known for excellent build quality, beautiful wood (flamey maple tops, backs, and sides), and nice sounding PUs -- Guild HB-1s, Fender HB-1s, or Seymour Duncan SD-1s (close in specs to a SD-'59). It's not uncommon to find these for anywhere from $1200-1700, which is ridiculous value for an all U.S.-made guitar. They're worth checking out.
 

Turd Fergusen

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i would add T-100Ds to your shopping list
my own preference would be early 60s with dearmonds , but i think all years of hoboken and westerly are good.

if you play rockabilly or bluesabilly the single coil versions are great
Food for thought. I do play a lot of punk, garage style music so that is a definite choice. Thanks.
 
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