New Hartford Factory Second???
- Thread starter FNG
- Start date
Not sure what to make of it, FNG... If this is a "factory second" it doesn't seem to have been sold through a reclaimer (which is the typical path). So, they got it new at the factory. Very interesting. Likely this was a dealer give-away or something when they did the dealer summit?? Just guessing.
It was probably held onto by a dealer and now is making its way out for sale. Can't be sold as "new" as far as the factory is concerned, so there it is.
That's just my guess. I wouldn't hesitate for a second on this one. Would like to see a shot of the label though.
It was probably held onto by a dealer and now is making its way out for sale. Can't be sold as "new" as far as the factory is concerned, so there it is.
That's just my guess. I wouldn't hesitate for a second on this one. Would like to see a shot of the label though.
fronobulax
Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
- Joined
- May 3, 2007
- Messages
- 24,789
- Reaction score
- 8,916
- Location
- Central Virginia, USA
- Guild Total
- 5
Unless my mind is still fuzzy because the coffee hasn't kicked in, it seems to me that the dealer is selling, and telling the same story about a D-55 and a D-50. The D-50 listing claims he has sold two other D-50's. If I had to speculate what is going on, I would say that the person is an authorized dealer for Guilds since they were purchased at the factory. I find it hard to believe they would have adopted a "no sales to individuals at the factory" recently enough that it applied to LMG 2010 but not before. The person may also work there since sales to employees wouldn't annoy the dealer network too much. Regardless, this does not seem like the dumping of stock associated with the closing of Tacoma. It sounds more like the traditional sale of functional items with cosmetic blemishes that always happens when the producer can't meet their standards with 100% of the production.
I would be very interested to see the label and how they marked it as a second. If my memory is correct, there are no serial numbers until the handwritten one on the label. While that would cause me to be concerned since labels fall off, it does mean that the easiest way to mark a second and not be faced with warranty claims is to let it leave the factory without a label and serial number.
I would be very interested to see the label and how they marked it as a second. If my memory is correct, there are no serial numbers until the handwritten one on the label. While that would cause me to be concerned since labels fall off, it does mean that the easiest way to mark a second and not be faced with warranty claims is to let it leave the factory without a label and serial number.
The local Guild dealer here has a "factory second" D40 for sale. The store owner said it was a second due to some finishing flaw in the burst but we couldn't tell. The guitar, on comparison to the "factory first" model, was identical in tone and volume. I was a little annoyed that the "factory second" was selling for the same price as the flawless one thought. :?
Is anyone contacting the seller? I'm too busy right now. Hopefully we can get that information. The guys in New Hartford did not say there would never be factory seconds... I just don't think this is the "usual" process that we're seeing with this sale.
FNG
Enlightened Member
I think they should call these "blemished" versus "factory seconds", at least from a marketing perspective.
fronobulax
Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
- Joined
- May 3, 2007
- Messages
- 24,789
- Reaction score
- 8,916
- Location
- Central Virginia, USA
- Guild Total
- 5
However, since the seller is not representing himself as an authorized dealer, I would not expect a warranty. What concerns me more is listing the item as new. This reminds me of the gray market where new items are sold by unauthorized dealers and warranties may be non-existent or provided by the dealer and not the manufacturer.capnjuan said:
fronobulax
Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
- Joined
- May 3, 2007
- Messages
- 24,789
- Reaction score
- 8,916
- Location
- Central Virginia, USA
- Guild Total
- 5
Probably just a matter of what you are used to. For me, a "factory second" is a pretty well defined term and I know what to expect. In particular, it isn't a factory second if whatever was not up to standards effects functionality. Blemish could be a fatal flaw if cosmetics are part of functionality. Somehow this self-induced hair splitting reminds me of Ben Franklin's observation thatFNG said:
From my conversations with the Guild guys at LMG and some emails with a Guild dealer, it is clear that Guild's policy is a good one.
Here's what happens: If a guitar fails a final check due to anything cosmetic, the guitar is NOT marked in any way as a factory second, but is sold to a dealer as a new guitar with no factory warranty. The serial number is recorded at the factory as being one that has no warranty.
I'm willing to bet good money that these guitars we're seeing have an intact, normal Guild label, with a regular serial number. The only difference is that they are sold with no warranty. Street Sounds in New York has a few CT Guilds with no warranty as well and they have no markings indicating that they are factory seconds, which I think is a good thing.
Funny enough, after seeing a good bit of these non-warranted guitars, its interesting how usually no one can see what the cosmetic issue is. My idea is that typically those guitars with imperfect finishes (too thick, imperfect binding scraping, incorrect burst pattern, etc...) are marked to be sold with no warranty.
Here's what happens: If a guitar fails a final check due to anything cosmetic, the guitar is NOT marked in any way as a factory second, but is sold to a dealer as a new guitar with no factory warranty. The serial number is recorded at the factory as being one that has no warranty.
I'm willing to bet good money that these guitars we're seeing have an intact, normal Guild label, with a regular serial number. The only difference is that they are sold with no warranty. Street Sounds in New York has a few CT Guilds with no warranty as well and they have no markings indicating that they are factory seconds, which I think is a good thing.
Funny enough, after seeing a good bit of these non-warranted guitars, its interesting how usually no one can see what the cosmetic issue is. My idea is that typically those guitars with imperfect finishes (too thick, imperfect binding scraping, incorrect burst pattern, etc...) are marked to be sold with no warranty.
Jazzy, I think that's probably right. I got the impression that anything that was actually a functional problem would be bandsawed at this point. I would not hesitate (other than to verify the status of this guitar and verify it's not stolen with the factory) on one of these items.
I saw this one too, and will be keeping an eye on it. Like Chaz, I'd like to see a shot of the label if it has one. I'd curious as to what the final selling price turns out to be.
Al, was it some dealer-only gathering at the factory?? Are you talking about the dealer summit from fall '09?alpep said:
Bill Ashton
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2006
- Messages
- 4,439
- Reaction score
- 1,048
- Location
- North Central Massachusetts
- Guild Total
- 4
While it is possible that I missed it, I was under the impression after the Q & A session that the Guilds we were seeing with no warranty were Tacoma's or GAD's sent through a "refurbisher," as it was not worth it for the factory to spend more time on them. While things certainly could have changed in a month, they didn't sound like NH's were to show up on that market. I am kinda disappointed. However, I cannot imagine that NH-Guild would be very happy if an employee was buying things and then sellinig them off so publically.
fronobulax
Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
- Joined
- May 3, 2007
- Messages
- 24,789
- Reaction score
- 8,916
- Location
- Central Virginia, USA
- Guild Total
- 5
Just to be clear, not all seconds go through a refurbisher. Indeed, selling factory seconds is a long done and honorable practice in other industries. While you, and the original poster, are entitled to your sense of dismay, I do not believe these NH seconds are cause for concern, precisely because they came on the market direct from the factory.Bill Ashton said:
In fact, given that most people can't tell why they were sold as seconds, this seems to be a good sign because it implies the quality control is detecting things that typical buyers cannot.
Tangentially, I wonder if the price difference between a second and a new guitar is a pretty good approximation of the value of the warranty in the marketplace?
I saw a CT 2009 F412 factory blemish that sold for $1k less than its same year, new model. It was a super attractive deal at $1700.
The dealer described it as: new, non-blemished, sold with a warranty only from the dealer for a length of one year.
The dealer described it as: new, non-blemished, sold with a warranty only from the dealer for a length of one year.
Taylor Martin Guild
Senior Member
The guitar pictured had the different pick guard.
Did Guild stay with this guard or do the 2010 D-55's have the larger more traditional guard on them now?
Did Guild stay with this guard or do the 2010 D-55's have the larger more traditional guard on them now?
Hi Frono; all those '07/'08 stamped-second Tacoma 'C'/Contemporary models were being offered at $600-$900 while the warranted models were offered at $1,400-$1,600 ... more for the Willy Porters and other fancy models which would arguably put the market value of a warranty - at least for those models - at $700-$800.fronobulax said:
Cotangentially