New Guild cases!

[jazzmang]

So at LMG 2010, I had spent a good bit of time with (Guild Product Manager) Dave Gonzales and picked his brain about a few things.

After casually talking about things, I had shown him Chazmo's Guild Custom Shop case (the ones with an Alligator skin-like exterior) and I had made the argument that the Guild line needed a refresh of cases. We talked about the history of cases that came with Guilds and what the line needed in terms of updates.

I made the recommendation that the new Standard series cases should be differentiated from the Traditional Series ones and all in all, we didn't want to skimp out on anything either.


Anyways, heres the result of that:

Late model 2010 Traditional Series Guilds are now shipping with new cases that feature a faux alligator finish, similar to the Custom Shop cases of yore, but minus the insane weight. ( CHAZMO! :lol: )
Standard series Guilds will continue to use the TKL cases that we've all seen with Guilds since Corona (which have only varied in interior color since then). These are still awesome cases and I'm glad that no corners were cut in this decision.


Additionally, we had talked about some other things, but I'm glad that my feedback was taken by the Guild guys and I hope some of the other things that Dave had seemed excited about will take hold in the future.

Just as a teaser, he was excited about the prospects of small things: Stenciling the G-shield and Guild logo on Traditional cases again (back to Westerly tradition!), and going back to stamping MADE IN USA on the back of the Guild headstock, which I was very excited about as well.

Anyways, just thought I'd share that little tidbit with you all. Its nice to have feedback considered and executed on.

-Mike

 

[twocorgis]

Anyways, just thought I'd share that little tidbit with you all. Its nice to have feedback considered and executed on.

-Mike

That's great news Mike! Now all we need is to get some US-made guitars in the stores so people can play 'em. Still no Guilds at the Sam Ash stores here on Long Island.

 

[jazzmang]

Anyways, just thought I'd share that little tidbit with you all. Its nice to have feedback considered and executed on.

-Mike

That's great news Mike! Now all we need is to get some US-made guitars in the stores so people can play 'em. Still no Guilds at the Sam Ash stores here on Long Island.

All in due time, I suppose! 8)

 

[southernGuild]

Good feedback Jazzman, and good stuff to know. Glad to hear all that news.

 

[Don]

Awesome news! You didn't happen to ask him if the rumors of re-issued hollow body electrics had any merit did you?

 

[fronobulax]

Awesome news! You didn't happen to ask him if the rumors of re-issued hollow body electrics had any merit did you?

The public comment at LMG 2010 was that the electrics were not coming any time soon. The goal was to get production of the acoustics established first. The problem of price was also noted since to be successful a new electric would have to compete in price with the vintage ones. Since that was 9 months ago, what are the sources of your rumors? Any chance they might be credible?

 

[Don]

Unfortunately the source of my rumors amounts to dark hints and whispering here on this forum. I'll give them wanting to establish the acoustics in their new home but the price objection is smoke and mirrors. If that was a concern they'd be doing the same thing with acoustics which they are not. I'm certain if you asked Guild why they don't put prices of acoustics at a par with vintage they would say that they can compete in quality or price but not both. In fact the GADs are to an extent an attempt to compete in price.

But if you want the original Guild quality, if you want a D40 that sounds as good as my 1972 D40SB did, in 1972, you have to pay what they cost to build. But I guess diverting to question to a non-answer about price is better than saying "We don't want to right now," or worse "Fender won't allow us to compete in the electric market."

I could go on for pages on this but would probably get booted over to the Archtop page if I did. Suffice it to say that they can do it, the real question is will they? (Pant! Pant!) Okay, I have it out of my system (Mostly). I'll be good now, I promise!

Cheers!

Don

 

[bluesypicky]

I could go on for pages on this but would probably get booted over to the Archtop page if I did. Don

Could you beat 31? :shock:

 

[Don]

Well... maybe not. I just get worked up over double speak.

 

[jazzmang]

Awesome news! You didn't happen to ask him if the rumors of re-issued hollow body electrics had any merit did you?

Dave's answer to that was 'not yet, but we want to' but in thinking further, I could see how convincing the powers at FMIC that Guild electrics had a place in the market (and one that didn't compete with Fender designs, I'd wager) would be somewhat of an uphill battle.

Before I go further, I want to say that I think that FMIC has finally realized that it needs to invest money into Guild if it wants to see it succeed... but it will take time.

PURE SPECULATION: I honestly think that in the distant future, Hamer will be pushed out to make way for Guild electrics. I have no official sources for this, but it seems that the internal lobbying that happened in selling FMIC on the idea of having Guild in CT (under KMC) was one motivated by quality, workspace, and vision. I believe that under Frank U., FMIC thinks Guild will succeed in CT... pn all fronts.


Anyways, I didn't mean to hijack my thread, but I thought I'd put it out there.

Anyways, back to the cases! You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfekeozctZw&feature=player_embedded

 

[fronobulax]

Unfortunately the source of my rumors amounts to dark hints and whispering here on this forum. I'll give them wanting to establish the acoustics in their new home but the price objection is smoke and mirrors.

To the best of my knowledge, the only comments reported on LTG concerning Guild electrics that are attributed directly to a named source with FMIC, all stem from LMG 2010. A couple of dealers have also reported that there is no electric news based upon conversations with distributors and the absence of electric announcements at major trade shows has also been reported.

The comment I remember from LMG 2010 was along the lines of "If we make a Starfire (for example) we are going to have to MSRP it in the $2,000-$2,500 range. With a street price above $1,000 we don't yet have a compelling reason to for someone to buy new instead of used." That's what I think I heard, smoke and mirrors or not :wink:

My opinion is that, in general, they don't want to fail because they do too much, too soon and the brand recognition for Guild acoustics is much higher that the brand recognition for Guild electrics. So electrics are just a distraction until the acoustics are re-established. I think they are not sure which models they could produce, which models are likely to succeed in the marketplace, which models will cannibalize sales from Gibson and others rather than FMIC brands, which models will be cost effective and what the actual price point could be. I suspect "smoke and mirrors" is really just a way of saying "we have not been able to think about this and are not ready to talk about it at this time".

 

[capnjuan]

I don't see Guild making electric guitars anytime in the foreseeable future. They would have to deal with the '60s and '70s models which - at $1,100 - $1,600 - are plentiful and compared to new Gibson and Heritage hollow-bodies, not that expensive and the '90s Starfire, Bluesbird, and S100 re-issues that sell for $800-$1400. Any 'new' Starfires / Bluesbirds / S100s would be re-issues of the re-issues. The jazzboxes are high-labor, high-margin, but low-volume. In the immortal words of Franklin D. (Dronge) Roosevelt: "The only thing Guild has to fear is Guild itself".

If the anticipated over-the-counter target price were in the low/mid $1,000s, then allowing for Guild's and retailer's gross margins in the 75%-$100 range, the guitar's cost of manufacture would have to be in the $300-$400 range. I question whether, without mass production, they can achieve those kinds of operating efficiencies in the US. Arguably, if those costs could be achieved here then Heritage and Rickenbacker would already have models in that target price range.

With five years of Westerly operating experience, FMIC knows exactly how many manhours it takes to make those guitars; adjust everything for inflation and NH G&A, they know what their out-the-door costs would be. The fuzzy question is how many of them could they sell. If Guild is going to get back into the electric guitar business, it will have to make the guitars overseas - as it did with the DeArmonds - ... or in Mexico ... put a Guild nameplate on them, and then endure the GAD-style 'but is it a Guild?' BS.

For now, I think new Guild electrics are Just A Dream ..

 

[devellis]

Good move on the cases. I wish the one I bought last year had the gator-look case.

 

[Don]

You guys make a lot of sense. I withdraw the majority of my angst. What is left I suppose I'll direct at the world at large for it not making sound business sense for Guild to magically be what I want it to be. I stand most humbly corrected. Thanks for the perspective.

Happy New Year!

Don

 

[adorshki]

I suspect "smoke and mirrors" is really just a way of saying "we have not been able to think about this and are not ready to talk about it at this time".

Maybe I'm reading more into the term "smoke and mirrors" than was intended by Don, but it sounds like more accusations of less than sincere intentions on Fender's part. Thanks for the feedback from SOMEONE WHO WAS THERE, Mr. Moderator. Personally I get a little tired of what I perceive as Fender-bashing. Don, while I was editing this I can see you "withdrew your angst" Allow me to present another view to further your patience: Thanks to Fender, the bottom line is: THE GUILD BRAND IS STILL ALIVE AND STILL A REASONABLE REPRESENTATION OF AL DRONGE'S VISION.
Since 1995 The US has gone through 2 historic economic crises, yet Fender has not closed the book on the Guild brand. That's enough for me at this time.
New cases are just one of those myriad details evidencing commitment on Fender's part.
And every time I see another post about not seeing any on retail display, I become more convinced that the majority of them MUST be being pre-ordered by folks like us.
I sure would like to hear Mr. Gonzales' take on that theory. It may be that they can't actually tell what the dealers are ordering for "sold orders" though. Or is it possible there may actually be "allocation" of product, whereby "stocking orders" are limited in size and preference is given to the best volume dealers? I've witnessed that process in electronics, automobiles, and paper products. In fact it also helps guarantee that "sooner or later everybody gets at least one unit", which also helps these manufacturers avoid legal issues related to accusations of unfair restraint of trade.
So yes that's sheer speculation on my part, but how else can you explain over a year's worth of production activity and still no retail presence? Does it really take that long to ramp up production?
Any answers out there?
In the words of my hero J. Lennon: "Just gimme some truth". At least so far at least I don't think we're getting any lies. 8)

 

[Bill Ashton]

Cap'n, didn't you really mean...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41thd0IrFs

Jazz, thanks for giving DG the input that certainly played pertinent part in the new cases...

As I probably stated sometime before, I was very frustrated this summer when I was loaded , locked and ready to buy a 412/512 and could not find a pair of them to play against each other...I mean, I shouldn't have had to drive 4 hours or more to do it...then someone suggested, where would I have to go it wanted to try a particular model Collings or Huss & Dalton...sigh Point well taken, we just have to be patient...

 

[jazzmang]

A topic that Dave and I also talked on was availability.

Insider info: New Hartford Guild currently builds less than 10 acoustic guitars per day.
And even though Guild's dealer network is vastly smaller than it used to be in its heyday (late 90's til early 2000's), the guys are working hard to give their prospective dealers a feeling of trust. Dave acknowledged that a lot of dealers dropped Guild b/c FMIC didn't maintain the lever of dealer relations that Guild used to have.

Anyways, long story short: A lot of dealers have come back on board, both in the USA and in countries abroad. However, with the limited output of the New Hartford facility, it will be a long time before all their channels are saturated.

Interesting tidbit: When I was attempting to get a CT D-55 ATB, I got Bing from Guitars of Montana (who is a great guy, btw) to place an order.
4 months later, the guitar was finally made and shipped to us.

When I mentioned this to Dave (and Frank ended up touching on this as well later), they said that they saw New Hartford as the place where Guild will be established as a maker of top quality boutique guitars. Their vision is to have a low volume, high quality facility. The impression I got is that they do not ever want the quality to suffer in an attempt to increase quantity.

While I too would love to see Guilds everywhere with 100 different models, keeping the same vision as the late Mr. Dronge of having high quality, handmade, boutique guitars is fine by me.

Keeping the legacy alive 8)

 

[Don]

Would I get flamed again if I said "Yea verily, count me in on that!"?

 

[fronobulax]

Would I get flamed again if I said "Yea verily, count me in on that!"?

No.

But part of the reason for that answer is that I don't think you were flamed once. If you disagree and I was part of it, please accept my apology.

 

[capnjuan]

Cap'n, didn't you really mean...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41thd0IrFs

Hi Bill; or maybe this.