Need some advice D-25

dogman

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
176
Reaction score
3
Good morning all, I have GAS for a D-25 but need help choosing which style. I was looking for a early mahogany model with an arched back. As I searched I found that Guild didn't start the arched back untill they put the spruce top on in the 70's. any advice on sound and scale length(i prefer the longer scale) between the spruce top, arched back, flat back or all Hog. All help would be appreciated.
dogman
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,769
Reaction score
8,899
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
dogman said:
Good morning all, I have GAS for a D-25 but need help choosing which style. I was looking for a early mahogany model with an arched back. As I searched I found that Guild didn't start the arched back untill they put the spruce top on in the 70's. any advice on sound and scale length(i prefer the longer scale) between the spruce top, arched back, flat back or all Hog. All help would be appreciated.
dogman
Can't help you, but I'm glad you're asking. I often wondered what Mrs. Fro's D-25 would have been if I knew then (when I bought it) what I know now. My regret is that I did not trust LTGers enough to ask for advice, although I know better now.
 

killdeer43

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
21,848
Reaction score
113
Location
Northwest Washington on the Salish Sea
dogman said:
Good morning all, I have GAS for a D-25 but need help choosing which style.
D'man,

I've become an avid (rabid?) proponent of the mid- to late-70s arched back D25s. I'd like to know if ALL of them sound as good as mine.
I can never get over the combination of volume, projection, and sustain that come from that guitar. Add to all that the fact that it's a solid guitar, but it's lighter without the added bracing on the back.
It gives my D50 a real run and it far exceeds the D35 in overall playability.

I'd like to acquire another one, because I'm GASsed! :wink:
Joe
 

GardMan

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
5,367
Reaction score
975
Location
Utah
Guild Total
5
Dogman,
I can't help you much with tonal comparisons... I have a '74 D-25M with spruce top and arched laminated mahognay back. It's a cannon... rich dark tone with incredible projection and sustain. I love it in DADGAD. I did play an all 'hog flat-backed D-25 some 37 years ago, and chose my D-35 instead. But that's too long ago for me to compare its tone to my '74... I have heard that the flat-backed all 'hog models are a little more understated and "woodier" in their tone... but I don't have a good idea what that means.

However, here's a bit of D-25 history (from Hans Moust's book), so you can see what is out there:

The D-25 was introduced in 1968 as Guild's "budget" dread. It was essentially an all solid mahogany (T/B/S) version of the D-35, and had the typical flat/braced back. In its first year, it had a black headstock overlay with inlaid Guild logo and smaller pickguard. That was changed to a plain headstock with silk-screened Guild logo and standard pickguard in '69.

D-25s with spruce tops and laminated, arched backs were introduced ~1974 (my '74 is spruce topped/arched back). However, during the transition period there also were D-25s made with mahogany tops and laminated, arched mahogany backs. So, during this brief period from '73-'74, you can actually find three versions of the D-25:

(1) All mahogany with (solid) flat backs (1968~1973);
(2) Mahogany topped with arched laminated mahogany backs (sides are solid mahogany) (1973~1974); and
(3) Spruce topped with arched laminated mahogany backs (sides are solid mahogany) (~1974 on).

From watching eBay over the last 4 years, the spruce-topped D-25s (#3 above) from the mid-late-'70s are the most common (as might be expected, they were made for a longer period). You do have to look carefully at these on eBay... some sellers think that the M in the model designation (as in D-25M) means it's all mahogany. It doesn't... the "M" refers to the stained top finish (usually on a spruce top). During the '70s they also come in "cherry" finish (and brown?)... and later in a variety of finishes (natural top = NT, black, burst, others?)

The all solid mahogany flat-backed version (#1 above) shows up reasonably often (maybe 10-12 a year). These are easy to spot... they will typically have SNs dating to '73 or earlier, and have back bracing visible thru the soundhole. There are/were a couple up on eBay this past week.

The arched back mahogany topped D-25s (#2 above) are the rarest of the three on eBay...I have seen maybe a couple a year over four years. You have to look a bit carefully to ID them... they will typically have SNs dating to '73-74, and the top will show the more prominant grain of mahogany (compared to the stained spruce tops, which often exhibit very little visible grain or figuring; and, of course, they will have arched backs with no back bracing visible thru the soundhole).

I can't say I have seen any real price differnetial between the three on eBay... all tend to sell in the $500-$750 range, depending on condition and the vagaries of the marketplace. I would say anything under $600 is a good deal... under $500 a steal. But, it's all relative...

Good hunting!
Dave
 

dogman

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
176
Reaction score
3
Thanks for the help all, looks like the ship is steering tword an arched back. Now the tuffer question. Should I look for a 73-74ish Hog or go newer with the spruce top. Thanks again for all the knowledge you all have posted.
dogman
 

dreadnut

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
16,082
Reaction score
6,442
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Guild Total
2
I think the general concensus is that the spruce-topped one is brighter sounding, the 'hog topped one is warmer.

I have a biased opinion because I've been playing my spruce-top one since I bought it new 34 years ago :D
 

Scottdog

Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
106
Reaction score
0
Location
Southern New England
Can't help with the 1973-74 arched back Hog but I recently bought a 1985 D-16M that is an all mahogany, arched back dread and is dimensionally the same as my 1975 D-25M (spruce top). After correcting some saddle issues on the D-16, they are both great sounding instruments but the D-25 is louder and richer. If I could only have one it would be the spruce top one. And, as long as guys like GardMan keep posting links to great deals, that's not going to happen.

That's all I got. Your mileage may vary, :D

SD
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,800
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
My '96 is a gem, period. Very light which I think contributes to excellent resonance/sustain, no neck issues even after two refrets. NO issues at all other than cosmetic which are my fault. A couple of others here with '25's of similar vintage are also very happy. "Plays like Butter" (even though we know just about any guitar will when set up right, but my D40 is set up identically and the '25 is still easier to play.) :wink:
 

southernGuild

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
4,925
Reaction score
0
Location
South of South Sydney, New South Wales, AUSTRALIA
I TOO am SMITTEN by the D-25m............I have LONG wanted one , and at last i have my own!! :D a 1977, arch back, spruce top. ABSOLUTELY MAGIC sound ( as described above) I LOVE this guitar!!!! mine has had a neck reset, which was shown here ( d25 restoration) and was worth every bit of it! the workmanship and set up is spot on perfect, and like others....I too actually wonder if there can actually be one that sounds better than this one! THATS their charm, they are simply wonderful guitars! When I say "I couldnt be happier with it."....man, i MEAN IT!!! I is all i wanted in a guitar....and then some!!!
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,800
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
southernGuild said:
I TOO am SMITTEN by the D-25m............I have LONG wanted one , and at last i have my own!! :D a 1977, arch back, spruce top. ABSOLUTELY MAGIC sound ( as described above) I LOVE this guitar!!!! mine has had a neck reset, which was shown here ( d25 restoration) and was worth every bit of it! the workmanship and set up is spot on perfect, and like others....I too actually wonder if there can actually be one that sounds better than this one! THATS their charm, they are simply wonderful guitars! When I say "I couldnt be happier with it."....man, i MEAN IT!!! I is all i wanted in a guitar....and then some!!!
You don't have to hold back, SG, you're among friends here...tell us what you REALLY think! :lol:
 

kitniyatran

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,391
Reaction score
504
Location
SW Fl.
adorshki said:
My '96 is a gem, period. Very light which I think contributes to excellent resonance/sustain, no neck issues even after two refrets. NO issues at all other than cosmetic which are my fault. A couple of others here with '25's of similar vintage are also very happy. "Plays like Butter" (even though we know just about any guitar will when set up right, but my D40 is set up identically and the '25 is still easier to play.) :wink:
I gots one o' dem "of similar vintage are also very happy", with a prob'ly '95 D25NT. :D
 

spiderman

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
571
Reaction score
0
Location
NE KS
I have a '74 D25M with the mahogany top and arched back. It is very loud and unsubtle. If you like rosewood, you may be put off by the sound. I like both and the clear tone is very different than my other guitars. It is like the maple (GAD JF30) but more so, a real in your face guitar. A real banjo killer!!

Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
Alvarez AC60S 2008
Eastman AC320ce 2008 BOOKMATCHING BOOKMATCHING WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOOKMATCHING!
http://www.massstreetmusic.com/store/sh ... id-Cutaway
GAD-JF30E(blonde) 2008
JF55 1997
D25M 1974
Martin Grand J35E 2009
 

Ridgemont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,352
Reaction score
1
Location
Austin TX
adorshki said:
A couple of others here with '25's of similar vintage are also very happy.

I have one of these, just a couple of months younger than adorski's. It plays so easily. the strings (GHS .12-.54) are so very slinky on this guitar. Makes it great for bends and other "tricks." The tone is phenomenal (of course it has had about 13 years to grow). Mine has a bright twangy bite of mahogany. Of all my guitars, I love to tune this one down 1/2 to a whole step for a real dark mellow sound. For comparisons sake, the best thing I have is my new 000-15 with a hog top. Both are bright and twangy, but the D-25 has a fuller sound with greater sustain. I have to admit that the saddle is shaved down to a nub so projection and sustain might not be what they could be.

By the way, I believe all D25s have a long scale neck.
 

GardMan

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
5,367
Reaction score
975
Location
Utah
Guild Total
5
Ridgemont said:
By the way, I believe all D25s have a long scale neck.

According to Hans (thus up to '77), the scale on all but one of Guild's dreads was the same, 25-1/2". Even the G-75 "small body" dread had the "standard" 25-1/2" scale. The only exception that I know of was the G-41 "jumbo" dread with its 26-1/4" scale.

More recent specs sheets have listed 25-5/8" as the scale length. I don't know if/when it really changed (Beesley lists the scale of the D-4, introduced in '91, as 25-5/8". I don't think he gives scale lengths for the other dread models... at least he doesn't in the excerpt I have on my laptop. I can check at home this evening.)
 

bluesypicky

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
7,763
Reaction score
394
Location
Jupiter, FL.
Ridgemont said:
For comparisons sake, the best thing I have is my new 000-15 with a hog top. Both are bright and twangy.

Ridge nailed it right here: "Twangy" is what characterizes all hog D25 the best.
The spruce top, however seems to have brought somewhat of a better balance across the spectrum, as all hog guitars can get "peaky" in addition to "twangy". :?

So as always, it all boils down to the music style you prefer bathing in.
Blues aficionados are known to like hog tops, strummers might favor spruce.....
 

Ridgemont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,352
Reaction score
1
Location
Austin TX
GardMan said:
Ridgemont said:
By the way, I believe all D25s have a long scale neck.

According to Hans (thus up to '77), the scale on all but one of Guild's dreads was the same, 25-1/2". Even the G-75 "small body" dread had the "standard" 25-1/2" scale. The only exception that I know of was the G-41 "jumbo" dread with its 26-1/4" scale.

More recent specs sheets have listed 25-5/8" as the scale length. I don't know if/when it really changed (Beesley lists the scale of the D-4, introduced in '91, as 25-5/8". I don't think he gives scale lengths for the other dread models... at least he doesn't in the excerpt I have on my laptop. I can check at home this evening.)

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant long scale as in the standard 25.5 inch scale. I always think of short scale as the 24 3/4" or the 24.9" scale.

It seems like the OM and GA guitars (F30, F40, F47) still are still listed with the standard scale. The jumbos are slightly larger with 25 5/8" and the new dreads are even bigger with 25.63."

As for D25s after '77, I do not know, but I could measure mine when I get home.
 

killdeer43

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
21,848
Reaction score
113
Location
Northwest Washington on the Salish Sea
bluesypicky said:
So as always, it all boils down to the music style you prefer bathing in.
Blues aficionados are known to like hog tops, strummers might favor spruce.....
I'll second that, because my previous D15 (all 'hog) was much better for finger picking blues tunes than for strumming.
Bikerdoc can possibly chime in since he owns it now. :wink:

Joe
 

Ridgemont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,352
Reaction score
1
Location
Austin TX
bluesypicky said:
Ridge nailed it right here: "Twangy" is what characterizes all hog D25 the best.
The spruce top, however seems to have brought somewhat of a better balance across the spectrum, as all hog guitars can get "peaky" in addition to "twangy". :?

So as always, it all boils down to the music style you prefer bathing in.
Blues aficionados are known to like hog tops, strummers might favor spruce.....

I agree. I find the all hog guitars to be the most fun for the blues and for soft strumming when to do not want and overpowering full voice from the guitar (such as some of dylan type folk music). However, I feel that if you are looking for a well rounded guitar for all sorts of music, then a spruce top guitar may be more preferable.

For example, I really like that old country blues stuff and I am trying to learn a lot of Robert Johnson songs which sound great on my 000-15 as well as my D25. I also play quite a few Ben Harper songs which is contemporary modern day fingerpicking accompaniment. Sorry so say that the peaky twang of the 000-15 is just too abrasive for Harper's stuff, but just awesome on the D25 with the spruce top.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,800
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
spiderman said:
I have a '74 D25M with the mahogany top and arched back. It is very loud and unsubtle. A real banjo killer!!

Harmony H-173 bought in 1960 (retired)
Alvarez AC60S 2008
Eastman AC320ce 2008 BOOKMATCHING BOOKMATCHING WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BOOKMATCHING!
http://www.massstreetmusic.com/store/sh ... id-Cutaway
GAD-JF30E(blonde) 2008
JF55 1997
D25M 1974
Martin Grand J35E 2009
WE HAVE A NEW SLOGAN! NO MORE "CANNONS"! THIS IS THE DAWN OF THE AGE OF THE "BANJO KILLERS"! I LOVE IT!! :lol:
 
Top