Need help identifying a Guild

[thegreatbuddha]

Hey guys, Im new here so forgive me if this isn't where a thread like this goes but Ive got to start somewhere.

I received and old Guild hollow-body that was in a mild state of disrepair from my grandpa a few years ago and it wasn't until recently after he passed away that I decided to fix it up.

Its a nice guitar and all, but I mainly play hard-rock and heavy metal. I know that there are bands who use hollow-bodies in hard rock but it's just not the sound I am going for and I decided to sell it.

It had no electronics and was just the body, so I put a Bigsby tremolo on it, a set of Barcus Berry humbuckers, a plain bronze washer underneath a three way pickup selector, a tune-o-matic bridge (i had a wooden bridge but i went with tune-o-matic for intonation) and two random knobs i found in my grandpas house

I put an ad on craigslist just to see if I would get any attention and offered to take a trade for a comparative quality solid-body guitar.

I got quite a few replies the first night, one guy offered to trade me a MIM Strat and a Schecter C-1, the only problem is someone flagged my post saying that my guitar was a counterfeit.

The guy said that because the truss-rod cover is misaligned and the guild logo is off coupled with the lack of serial number is indicative of a fake.

I know next to nothing about Guilds and since it was painted black many years ago (covering whatever serial there may have been) I have no way of authenticating it and I was wondering if you guys could help.

Im going to include a few pics but all I had to take them with is my webcam

 

[thegreatbuddha]

I did take it to a local guitar store to ask the opinion of the the owner and he couldn't really assure me either way

he said if it was repainted then that could account for the truss rod cover being misaligned the Guild logo being off

He said it looks like one of the x-series, x-150 or x-175 but he can't be sure

He also said that the early Guild guitars had a solid piece of Mother of Pearl at the headstock and the lines were just painted in to make it say Guild (which is the way mine is) as opposed to individual pieces for each letter.

He also said that like the painted headstock logo's, one volume and one tone knob was common for early model Guilds.

So its either a fairly old genuine Guild or a fake that someone put a fair bit of work into.

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

Welcome and surely someone knowledgeable will be along shortly.

It might be for Hans to say whether anything at all is still original...or if it ever was..

Meanwhile, if it were a frankenstrat, would you think it was valuable?

Might be a nice player, whatever it is...what you're hoping to receive in return would be the question.

 

[thegreatbuddha]

if it were a frankenstrat, would you think it was valuable?

Im not sure if I understand the question, I know Ive got a menagerie of random parts on it but the body and neck are original... afaik

I guess i would think it was valuable

Might be a nice player, whatever it is...what you're hoping to receive in return would be the question.

I have a fair amount of experience fixing guitars and I installed the pickups and wiring myself as well as setting the action and intonation. It plays better than any other guitar I own and the Barcus Berry hummers have a very unique tone. It sounds amazing, even through a crappy 15 watt combo amp, but its not for me or the stuff I play.

Like I said, I don't know much about Guild but my friends who are into jazz and country and blues always ask me to bring it when I visit them and their consensus is that its a great guitar for that kind of music. Im just looking to get something for my kind of music because otherwise it will just sit in my room gathering dust.

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. Headstock and logo definitely don't look right to me, but I probably wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it was a deliberate counterfeit. Shape is correct for a 1950's Guild and the painting could explain a lot. Any sign of a label in the soundholes?

 

[GuildFS4612CE]

if it were a frankenstrat, would you think it was valuable?

Im not sure if I understand the question, I know Ive got a menagerie of random parts on it but the body and neck are original... afaik

I guess i would think it was valuable

[quote8gifkv6]Might be a nice player, whatever it is...what you're hoping to receive in return would be the question.

I have a fair amount of experience fixing guitars and I installed the pickups and wiring myself as well as setting the action and intonation. It plays better than any other guitar I own and the Barcus Berry hummers have a very unique tone. It sounds amazing, even through a crappy 15 watt combo amp, but its not for me or the stuff I play.

Like I said, I don't know much about Guild but my friends who are into jazz and country and blues always ask me to bring it when I visit them and their consensus is that its a great guitar for that kind of music. Im just looking to get something for my kind of music because otherwise it will just sit in my room gathering dust.[/quote8gifkv6]
What I was trying to suggest politely, as to not hurt your feelings in any way, was that, while all of us here feel that our Guilds are valuable...the common market does not share our values monetarily...compared to other 'collectible' instruments. Alas, it's their loss as we know the value of ours. :wink:

And any 'vintage' guitar, Guild or otherwise, that is not 'original'...is going to bring a much lower price. Even other brands, that are perceived to have higher dollar values, are greatly devalued when parts are replaced with non originals. And those that are mostly or even completely built from a composite of non original and/or replacement parts, the 'franken' whatevers, have little dollar value. They, even when nice, are strictly 'players' and are only worth what that particular player is willing to pay...and usually factors in the the neglible resale capability. The person who buys a 'player', does not expect to get back the price paid when resold. This in no way reflects on your luthier/tech capabilities. It's merely market reality.

At this point it sounds like you're trying to establish an actual cash value for your guitar and trade for one that you perceive to be the same cash value. As little if any is original, that is going to be difficult. If another player likes your guitar, and has a guitar that you like, then a trade benefits both parties.

I think, unless Hans chimes in here, any determination of originality is going to be difficult...he's the only one with the experience to solve the mystery...he did write the book. 8) :mrgreen: You might try sending him a pm (private message) and asking him what pictures of your guitar he would most need to be able to help you.

 

[thegreatbuddha]

Any sign of a label in the soundholes?

None that I can see

What I was trying to suggest politely, as to not hurt your feelings in any way, was that, while all of us here feel that our Guilds are valuable...the common market does not share our values monetarily...compared to other 'collectible' instruments. Alas, it's their loss as we know the value of ours. :wink:

And any 'vintage' guitar, Guild or otherwise, that is not 'original'...is going to bring a much lower price. Even other brands, that are perceived to have higher dollar values, are greatly devalued when parts are replaced with non originals. And those that are mostly or even completely built from a composite of non original and/or replacement parts, the 'franken' whatevers, have little dollar value. They, even when nice, are strictly 'players' and are only worth what that particular player is willing to pay...and usually factors in the the neglible resale capability. The person who buys a 'player', does not expect to get back the price paid when resold. This in no way reflects on your luthier/tech capabilities. It's merely market reality.

At this point it sounds like you're trying to establish an actual cash value for your guitar and trade for one that you perceive to be the same cash value. As little if any is original, that is going to be difficult. If another player likes your guitar, and has a guitar that you like, then a trade benefits both parties.

I think, unless Hans chimes in here, any determination of originality is going to be difficult...he's the only one with the experience to solve the mystery...he did write the book. 8) :mrgreen: You might try sending him a pm (private message) and asking him what pictures of your guitar he would most need to be able to help you.

Ok, I see what you meant now.

Like I said, Im just trying to get a guitar that suits my style and I have this Guild that I hope could suit someone elses style, I just don't want to hand off a counterfeit.


Also, I hear a lot about Hans, forgive my ignorance but who is he?

 

[taabru45]

Hans Moust...wrote the book on Guild literally....no one knows more...as I've said before we always love it when he pops in with his knowledge, we all learn from it, and if we're lucky....he'll share a joke that we somehow all relate to...Steffan

 

[AlohaJoe]

I just don't want to hand off a counterfeit. Also, I hear a lot about Hans, forgive my ignorance but who is he?

I appreciate your honesty. The best way to sell a guitar you aren't sure of is just to tell the truth. You don't know if it's a Guild or not, but it's a nice player with Bigsby, new pups etc etc.

Sadly, even if it is a Guild, collectors and other buyers of vintage gear are usually looking for instruments in as close to original condition as possible. When a vintage guitar (or any other collectible) is altered, some value is lost. Generally, the greater the alterations, the greater the loss.

Your guitar looks really nice! The black is cool, and you put a lot of time and work into it. I'm sure someone will appreciate it for what it is and hopefully you can get back the money you put into it and some extra for your time.

Hans wrote the book:
http://www.amazon.com/Guild-Guitar-Book-Hans-Moust/dp/0634009664

 

[Walter Broes]

That looks like a very early NYC Guild (a 53 or a 54?) that's been so heavily customized it's hardly recognizable any more.

Nothing wrong with the logo btw, that's how the very early ones looked.

 

[thegreatbuddha]

I appreciate your honesty. The best way to sell a guitar you aren't sure of is just to tell the truth. You don't know if it's a Guild or not, but it's a nice player with Bigsby, new pups etc etc.

Sadly, even if it is a Guild, collectors and other buyers of vintage gear are usually looking for instruments in as close to original condition as possible. When a vintage guitar (or any other collectible) is altered, some value is lost. Generally, the greater the alterations, the greater the loss.

I was up-front about my lack of knowledge about the Guild and it wasn't even an issue with the guy who wanted to trade me the Schecter and the Strat but when another person wouldn't stop e-mailing and calling me about trading for an Ibanez that I repeatedly told him I was not interested in and I finally less than politely told him to stop contacting me, I think he flagged my post more out of spite than anything

But I guess everyone who contacted me through craigslist received a message saying my listing was flagged as a counterfeit because the guy with the Schecter and Strat asked me about it and when I couldn't offer any proof he understandably backed out.

 

[taabru45]

You are in good company here...we'll be honest with you as well as probably rib you a little if you hang in long enough...I've found a lot to appreciate here, including the people.... Steffan

 

[thegreatbuddha]

its a little refreshing to get so many helpful and polite responses

Im more used to some less than reputable imageboards/forums and the general dickery (flame-wars, indecipherable text and all around crappiness) that inherently comes with them.


Also, Ive sent Hans a message (to which he replied almost instantly) and Im going to take some higher quality pics for him to take a better look at.

Ill post the pics here as well after I send them to hans

 

[fronobulax]

Nothing wrong with the logo btw, that's how the very early ones looked.

I (now) agree. I don't remember the really early models and the picture had just enough fuzz that it could have been done "after the fact". However, some browsing in "the Bible" has shown me the path I should tread. Thanks for the correction.

 

[fronobulax]

I think he flagged my post more out of spite than anything

Sorry you got involved with a jerk.

It is far too easy to accuse someone of selling a counterfeit. But it is also difficult to describe something correctly when it lacks original features due to modifications. My hunch is that you have a genuine Guild but should not describe it as such because of alterations. The most honest description IMO would be along the lines of: "This guitar apparently started out as a 195x Guild xyzzy but has been extensively modified. The modifications include..." You might be able to use a stronger word than "apparently" based upon what Hans tells you and whether he is willing to be quoted in your ad.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

I don't know how sn#'s were done in the 50's. Were they stamped into the back of the headstock like my 69? If so, I would think that a bright light and some angles with a magnifying glass would bring it out. If not, sanding flat should expose it. I'm just going by how my sn is in the back of the headstock.

 

[john_kidder]

were sn#'s in the 50's . . . stamped into the back of the headstock like my 69?

No. I agree with Walter, that looks like a '53 or '54 headstock logo, if so would not have had a s/n there.

 

[kakerlak]

Sorry,
I'm late to this party. I agree w/ Walter, though. The headstock shape and logo look right for early 50s. That being the case, and b/c it has the G-shield logo, it was probably once a fairly high-end model. The other thing that supports that ID is that, ona 50s Guild the 3-way switch would have been mounted on a plastic plate and the hole for it would have been bigger than the switch itself. I notice you mentioned installing it w/ a washer and see the large washer in your pics, which suggests to me that it's covering the oversized hole the factory mount would have left.

It's really a sort of appealing guitar, but tough to value.

The cons are:
Replaced tailpiece, bridge, knobs, pickups (including routing from original hole size), fretboard (those inlays are not Guild fare), tuners and it's refinished. With the Bigsby and shiny black finish, it has some rockabilly appeal, but that's diminished some by the humbuckers (although all sort of pickups will go in humbucker holes).

The pros: the finish looks pretty good and shiny, the guitar seems to be in good playing order, and at its very core, it's a well made, high end 50s American guitar.

Value would really be as a player, but since everything on it is probably of good quality, I'd say it's probably worth something like $550-650 in trade value. I think it would be a reasonable trade for a nice American parts Strat or Tele, high-end Japanese electric, other similarlyimodified vintage guitar, etc.

If I had something I thought you'd like, I'd be halfway interested in taking it in on trade.