My love/hate relationship with my X-500

[VinceM]

Greetings to all the Guild lovers here! I know this is the right place to get advice for my Guild issues.

I have a 1980ish X500. I got it new and it served me well for many years. The thing is build like a tank! However, in recent years, as I have gotten older and pickier about my tone, I became disgruntled with this instrument due to its boominess. Too much low mids (around 180 hz or so).

I am currently running it into a Henriksen Jazzamp with a 10 inch speaker. The 10 inch helps greatly to tame the boom, but still I need to turn the bass practically off to get a reasonable balance.

Is this boominess inherent to this instrument? My tech said the large size can contribute to such prominant low frequencies.

Or is the issue with the pickups? I think I want this guitar to roughly sound like a 175. You know, classic Joe Pass/Kenny Burrell kind of tone. Warm but clear.

Can anyone recommend pickups to tame this boom? My tech also said Seymour Duncan "rates" their pickups according to how prominant the bass/mids/treble frequencies are. So maybe I can find a pickup that is more compatible for the tone I am looking for.

I've tried messing with eq pedals, but this never really satisfied. Ultimatley I want a better starting point with the tone rather than doing major surgery via drastic eq shaping.

I must say, though, I am in more of a "love" phase right now. I recently put on a set of Gibson L5 roundwound strings and they did alot to increase the clarity, combined with drastically cutting the bass on the amp. Previously I was using TI flats. Once the boom is out of the way, this instrument really has an awesome classic jazz tone.

So any thoughts and experiences are most appreciated! I really want to maximize this instrument. I know the tone is in there! Thanks.

Vince

 

[fronobulax]

Welcome. I'll let someone who has an informed opinion address your questions. I'm sure they will be along soon.

 

[sixstringjazz]

Hi,

My experience with big jazz boxes (Yamaha L5 copy, Es 175, Guild X150, Heritage 550 etc...) is that changing the pickups will not solve your problem. The problem is the resonance and air of the body itself creating the inherent low end rumble that you speak of. I have tried eq also and it does help some, but it weakens the tone as well. My best results were obtained when I got a set of "Doug's Plugs". He has a website, and he makes custom plugs for your F holes that will allow you to get a better amplified tone. They are made of foam with a backing that has the same shape as the hole so they look pretty natural. This will go a long way to curing your problem if you play amplified most of the time. It does cut the acoustic output considerably, but you can remove them anytime you want, since it is not a permanent mod. Hope this helps.

 

[AlohaJoe]

Welcome to the forum!

The TI flats can be pretty boomy. A round-wound should go a long way toward solving the problem and a lighter gauge might help too. My X150 came with the same pup you have and I liked it OK but ended up replacing it with a single coil blade from Pete Biltoft. P90s would be sweet in there too.

Or you could just send the guitar to me for an free evaluation. :lol:

 

[Walter Broes]

A lot of bass is inherent to a big body guitar I think, no matter what the pickup is. That said, I never "understood" humbuckers on big guitars because they tend to muddy them up even more, to my ears and hands, that is.

Some people get fantastic sounds out of humbucker archtops, but I could never make them work, once I get the bass where I sort of want it, the treble will be too thin, and vice versa.
So apart from "emulating my favorite guitar players", that's one of the reasons I prefer single coil pickups.

My Guild X175's are the same size as your X500, and I have fairly recently switched to lighter bass strings, and am loving what that does - guitar has better string to string balance to my ears, and I'm getting less boomy bass. That said, I'm not a Jazz player at all and go for the opposite kind of tone, fairly twangy and bright, and I play (pure nickel wrap) rounds, and that setup might be a little too twangy for what you're after.
Still, bigger treble strings and lighter bass strings are working great for me on the archtops. (I'm using 11-14-17-26-36-46 now)

 

[VinceM]

Thanks for the welcome everyone!

And thanks for the great ideas. Doug's Plugs, eh? I've heard of them but didn't consider this since I don't have a feedback problem at all with the X500. But it makes sense that it would tame the most active resonance frequencies of the guitar body. I may give these a try. The reduction in acoustic tone is a non-issue because this guitar is not much louder than a semi-hollow! This sounds like a great solution.

Walter Broes - I hear you about humbuckers and archtops. I felt the same way - my Grestch synchromatic archtop (awesome lower priced Korean model) has a floating single coil and it is great. Very balanced. I get more of an acoustic Freddie Green thing going with that one. But there is something about the richness of a good (i.e. non-muddy!) humbucker that is really special.

And I'll definitely need to do more experimenting with strings. I like the round wounds for the clarity, but I still kind of want that flat wound character. And the string squeaks during chord solos - uggh! Any suggestions on a good set of non-muddy flats? I've used D'Addario Chromes and liked them.

 

[rwmol]

Hi Vince,

I use Sadowsky SGF13s on my X175 and L5. I prefer them over TIs and Chromes. The entire SGF series are available at J. Hale:

http://www.jhalemusic.com/pages/strings.html

I would give you Sadowsky's web page but, as of today, the link to strings is down.

Randy

 

[Boogie92801]

My X500 was very boomy.. My X170 far less so but still big bass. Plugs and or stuffing the indie will help and though it wil affect tone in other eays as wel. apup swap may change the tone some but it probably won't make that huge bottom end go away.

 

[Default]

Forgive my ignorance, but weren't these designed to be Jazz boxes for which bass response was supposed to be paramount? I mean, traditional jazz had all the treble rolled off...

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Forgive my ignorance, but weren't these designed to be Jazz boxes for which bass response was supposed to be paramount? I mean, traditional jazz had all the treble rolled off...

In a way you are right..... but that doesn't mean you have to play 'em that way :mrgreen:



Vince, I have a x170 and the bass was "unbalanced" for me too, I adjusted the poles on the pickups which meant screwing the low E in pretty far from the string and it helped a bunch, now I just roll off the bass about 5-10 minutes from straight up on my amp and I have a nicely balanced sound string-to-string.

 

[Default]

If you want to kill that bass resonance, why can't you cut a dowel and wedge it under the bridge as a soundpost? It's almost as cheap and easy as changing strings and it'll kill some of those feedback problems?

 

[Walter Broes]

Forgive my ignorance, but weren't these designed to be Jazz boxes for which bass response was supposed to be paramount? I mean, traditional jazz had all the treble rolled off...

Dunno, not the Jazz I like anyway..? Fat guitar tones, plenty of bass, but on Charlie Christian records, I don't hear a lot of rolled-off bass. Not on a typical George Barnes record either.

 

[VinceM]

Here's a nice clip of JP on his 175 that I think sounds great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWa6aChS ... re=related

Plenty of high end clarity. Not rolled off sounding at all. Plenty of bass, but it's not boomy where it gets in the way of the sweet midrange. It's neat how good his finger picking sounds. Usually fingerpicked archtops don't sound so clear. Of course the player has something to do with it!

Oh and check out his move at 2:48 - it cracks me up. He reaches in his pocket for his pick while hammering on. Probably pulling out pocket lint while he's at it!

Great ideas here. Keep 'em coming!! I'll definitely give those Sadowsky flats a try next string change. I've messed with the pole pieces, as well as the pickup height, which is pretty low. I found I needed to lower the 4th string pole piece the most. Maybe I'll try lowering the 5th and 6th strings some more. Although its hard for me to tell the difference unless I'm in a band rehearsal turned up.

 

[Default]

Forgive my ignorance, but weren't these designed to be Jazz boxes for which bass response was supposed to be paramount? I mean, traditional jazz had all the treble rolled off...

Dunno, not the Jazz I like anyway..? Fat guitar tones, plenty of bass, but on Charlie Christian records, I don't hear a lot of rolled-off bass. Not on a typical George Barnes record either.

Don't listen to much jazz, which is why I'm asking. Otoh, how many times has someone bought an old jazz box and found a cap grounding all the highs, negating the tone control altogether? At least a couple here and a few on the gdp. As Abe Simpson said, it was the fashion at the time.

Think it was FNG that suggested the homemade sound post for feedback control, but it stand to reason that adding a structual member would tighten up the sound more that a change of strings.

 

[Boogie92801]

The x170 has a post.. At least the later ones did... Photos just for fun.

 

[Ravon]

I gotta get me an X500, YUMMY. I'll worry about the 'boominess' later :wink:

 

[Default]

The x170 has a post.. At least the later ones did... Photos just for fun.

That's some gorgeous instruments right there! :mrgreen:
One of the fellows that used to be in the church band was a pro guitarist and had an X-175 with substantial trestle bracing. I don't know if it was factory or aftermarket, but it killed all the bass and it was almost as bad acoustically as a Les Paul.

 

[rhcole]

I have several big-box archtops. Depending on the amp I use, they can sound like butter or be boomy. I have solved this by not modifying the guitar, but instead use outboard EQ. May I strongly recommend the SansAmp Paradriver DI? I think it will solve your issues and then some. It has both a bass control but also a low midrange that you can tune and sweep to boost or extract frequencies. Often, excess bass on an archtop is actually coming from muddy low-midrange frequencies.

The Paradriver is very small, reasonably priced, and quiet. Check it out.

 

[Default]

http://www.guitarcenter.com/In-Store-Us ... 1071669161

 

[Ravon]

I have several big-box archtops. Depending on the amp I use, they can sound like butter or be boomy. I have solved this by not modifying the guitar, but instead use outboard EQ. May I strongly recommend the SansAmp Paradriver DI? I think it will solve your issues and then some. It has both a bass control but also a low midrange that you can tune and sweep to boost or extract frequencies. Often, excess bass on an archtop is actually coming from muddy low-midrange frequencies.

The Paradriver is very small, reasonably priced, and quiet. Check it out.

Thanks for the tip (and link). How ya think it'd do with an X170? Been thinking about an EQ but really don't know what to get. I've tried attenuators and assorted pedals through the years but never got that clean, ringing, bell like sustain with anything. Whenever I get loud and the tone clean, it tends to sound 'plinky' or 'boomy', whatever the guitar or amp.