Mild Reverb Rant... fixing up my 6/12 Doubleneck, Gibson content! ;-)

bobouz

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I've never bought from either ebay or Reverb, but have looked periodically on Reverb at Guilds. I've seen a number of guitars I might be interested in, but frequently the item is being sold "as is" with no return option. Instant deal killer for me.

Can't imagine buying a guitar with no return option. Tone, playability, and condition can never adequately be assessed through photos for gosh sake, so to offer a guitar for sale in that manner seems shady or at least questionable, and to actually buy one in that manner would be a complete shot in the dark. Not happening!
 

richardp69

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I'm one of those Reverb sellers that does not have an official return policy. However, if I ever sell a guitar and there is an issue I did not disclose or something structural wrong with the guitar, I take it back and refund 100% of the payment plus return shipping. It doesn't happen often (I think once since I've been selling on Reverb but for sure I'm not perfect and it will possibly happen again-I truly try to get it right and disclose everything I know but sometimes I just fail.)

The reason I don't advertise a return policy is simple. I am not the Guitar Center of NE Michigan. I expect the buyer to do his/her homework and make sure the model I'm selling and that he/she is buying is the model that's wanted. Don't take a flier on a guitar you haven't even heard and then come back to me and tell me it's not the sound you're looking for. That's on the buyer not the seller IMHO. Even then, I might accept a return but I would not also pay their return shipping.

I've bought a lot of gear sight unseen (in fact probably 90% of my gear is purchased that way) and mostly that's a function of living in the sticks with no decent music store around. But, I do my homework and research the model, listen to soundclips on the net, talk to people that own them etc. I won't say I've never been disappointed but it's fairly rare that I am.
 

Guildedagain

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Tom, I'm like everybody else, I price shop ;-)

I'm not sure where Reverb fits into my life at this point, I like the site, I like the coolness and the articles, browsing things like the guitars Rick Nielsen is getting rid of and all of the gear reviews, it's way cool, there's no doubt about it. Buying/selling wise, it's not doing much for me at this point, but maybe that will change over time... I'm usually fairly optimistic about the future ;-)
 

Sal

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I love Reverb. It doesn't have the exposure that eBay has but hopefully that will come. As for "deals" … good deals are not a guarantee in life but of course we all hunt for them. I'm not going to abandon Reverb because the sellers there aren't fools. I go there to buy good gear that I want or to sell good gear that I no longer need. I don't buy crap, I don't sell crap.


Lately I've been buying and selling a lot of effects pedals. I'm always looking for that new sound or great tone! As a seller Reverb is a better place for this than eBay. As a buyer I visit both.


So let me ask you all, do you give good deals when you sell your stuff? I have if it's to a friend or I want out fast, but mostly I'm trying to get a fair price. I think the days when people could make easy money buying gear cheap and selling high are near thru. Anyways, that's not why I'm in it.


I'll say it again, I love Reverb.
 

davismanLV

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Tom, I'm like everybody else, I price shop ;-)

I'm not sure where Reverb fits into my life at this point, I like the site, I like the coolness and the articles, browsing things like the guitars Rick Nielsen is getting rid of and all of the gear reviews, it's way cool, there's no doubt about it. Buying/selling wise, it's not doing much for me at this point, but maybe that will change over time... I'm usually fairly optimistic about the future ;-)
Guildedagain, this is your most succinct and concise post to date!! Thank you for that. Very understandable....... :encouragement:
 

Guildedagain

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In response to a couple points made;

I wasn't aware of eBay trying to keep up (or down) with Reverb as far as the final value fees were concerned, but that would be a very positive thing. I seem to have missed the promotions you were speaking of... After selling that guitar for $1600, and a vintage Nikon outfit (my own personal) with a lot of gorgeous lenses for $1800, and something else I don't remember, I was hit with the biggest bill I've ever owed eBay, $475 in fees!!!!!!!!!!!

10% of the take, PLUS the nutty 10% on the shipping... I am of the opinion that eBay needs to be sued, but I'm probably not going to be leading the vanguard in that endeavor.

I think that eBay and PPal splitting was a good thing, the whole thing smacked of a monopoly...

I think I prefer Lowes, but I will end up at Home Depot sometimes, and our farm has a commercial account at both stores. I remember when Lowes was Eagle, and I sure liked the nuts and bolts better back then, such is progress most often...

Another kudo to Reverb... I bought a pickguard for the D4-12 on Reverb, from a US seller. I subsequently had Hans send me a vintage NOS pickguard blank from the Netherlands (regular mail not express), and it got here today, and I'm still waiting for the pickguard from the USA Reverb seller...
 

Sal

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Guildedagain, you are so right, eBay's fees are horrible. Giving our support to Reverb when we can is, I think, the best thing we can do to combat those fees. As a seller I list on Craigslist, Reverb, and eBay but my prices on each site vary accordingly. Cheers!
 

bobouz

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The reason I don't advertise a return policy is simple. I am not the Guitar Center of NE Michigan. I expect the buyer to do his/her homework and make sure the model I'm selling and that he/she is buying is the model that's wanted. Don't take a flier on a guitar you haven't even heard and then come back to me and tell me it's not the sound you're looking for. That's on the buyer not the seller IMHO. Even then, I might accept a return but I would not also pay their return shipping.
That's on the buyer? Really? Regardless of how much research you do, or how many guitars of a similar ilk you've played, every guitar is different & a buyer is not going to know for sure what they've got until the instrument is in hand.

Richard, I'm sure you do everything possible to properly present what you're selling, but I clearly would not want to buy a guitar from you, and you obviously would not want to sell one to me because I need to actually kick the tires & have at least a 3-day minimum return option (shipping of course would be on me).

Good thing there are so many guitars out there, and so many ways to buy them.
 

richardp69

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Well, I'm not saying you're wrong because I'm not that smart and to be honest, I've been wrong enough in my life to know it's not a rarity. But you are correct, you and I would never be comfortable doing business together. But as you mention, that's o.k. because there are a lot of guitars, sellers and buyers out there from which to choose.

Here's a very good example. It's extreme but it's also a fact. A good friend of mine not far from me sold a beautiful made in the USA Fender Tele to a guy on Ebay at a very fair price. The guy got it, used it at a couple gigs he had played and then returned the guitar. No damage to the guitar, it was returned in the same condition as shipped. But, the guy apparently didn't need it for anything other than that gig(s) and because my friend had a no questions asked return policy he was able to do so. He even admitted to my friend that was his intent all along. And Ebay/Reverb stood behind the buyer so my friend had to refund the fella's money. So, all I'm saying is there are two sides to every story. I really believe that if you're honest and develop a good reputation with solid feedback, you will take care of your customer when needed and in my mind that's much more important than a stated return policy.

That's on the buyer? Really? Regardless of how much research you do, or how many guitars of a similar ilk you've played, every guitar is different & a buyer is not going to know for sure what they've got until the instrument is in hand.



Richard, I'm sure you do everything possible to properly present what you're selling, but I clearly would not want to buy a guitar from you, and you obviously would not want to sell one to me because I need to actually kick the tires & have at least a 3-day minimum return option (shipping of course would be on me).

Good thing there are so many guitars out there, and so many ways to buy them.
 

Guildedagain

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Guys, really appreciate all the input and valuable insights ;-)

I got to say in the realm of buying "site unseen" (pun ;-) that I've just had a serious reminder just of late, that acoustic guitars are much trickier and there is a lot more going on that is unseen, and don't count on getting meaningful answers unless you are dealing with the most knowledgable of sellers, and of course honest as well.

The return stories I could tell you are legion... Years back, I sold two really nice Nikon manual focus lenses (prime lenses) to a guy for around $450 shipped (eBay), and lo and behold, while I'm having my morning coffee he calls (he'd already called me before buying them (unusual) to ask me to walk over to the window with the lenses and describe any little nick or rub mark on the barrels, and the lenses were extremely minty, and I unfortunately have eagle eyes for this kind of stuff, seeing dings, scratches, "micro swirlies" ;-)

Well, he's back on the phone because he wants to send them back. And I say, why? And he tells me he found another lens like one he bought from me, but this one is "totally mint" and he wants me to go on eBay (gives me the item #) and look at it.

Wow...

So he wants to send mine back, freakin sucks, $450 and I probably already spent it...

This is where the story has merit ;-)

He wants me to refund him right now while he still has my lenses in his hand "because he'll miss out of the other one if he doesn't have the money right now"...

You know, I'm a nice polite person... so I nicely and politely told him "Buddy, I feel for you (really...) but I can't do that. You need to send me my lenses back, packed as good as I packed, the same exact way in fact, and when they get here, in the condition they left, I will refund you, but not before, can't do it".

He's in NYC, I'm in Eastern WA (The Scablands ;-) and it's three days shipping Priority, sometimes only two (God Bless the Post Office ;-) and he starts whining about how "he's gonna lose this deal" and I had to find a nice and polite way to JUST SAY NO! and get off the phone and go lick my wounds somewhere.

The lenses came back, not a thing wrong with them. Stuck em back on the Bay, off they went somewhere else to a happy camper, never heard anything but the good feedback I got from the guy ;-)

Here's another good one;

Before I ever started eBaying, I'm visiting one of the antique malls that had just been renovated from an old brewery, and talking with the owner and eBay came up and he tells me how he sold a set of Elvis plates on eBay, mint, never out of their boxes to some lady somewhere. Well, she writes to tell him to tell him the plates are horrible, "dirty and chipped on the corners", and he says "lady, just send em back if you're not happy", so she sends em back alright, her old dirty chipped up Elvis plates, probably been kickin around her house for twenty years...

He gets em back, light goes on in his head... ahhhh she swapped hers out for some new ones. So, he contacts her, of course she denies it. This guy isn't a guy you mess around with like this (it cost over a million to restore that old brewery, The Schade Brewery, Spokane WA), and he gets a hold of eBay, who tells him to go pee up a rope or something, so he gets a lawyer and he sued her, cost $1500 and he won a judgement against her. Of course she probably never had $1500 at any one time in her whole life and I doubt she paid it, but for him, it was simply a matter of principle.

I have dozens of others, I'm dealing with a refund situation with a Russian guy with one feedback right now, I knew he was trouble before I ever sent the package, but I did anyway.

Anyway, what I've recently re-discovered is that with electric guitars you can see most everything on the surface, and unless you're dealing with high dollar vintage stuff where you need to "look under the hood", it's fairly safe, and I have bought GOBS of guitars, pedals and a maps that way.

I should also say at this point that if you get a serious bargain on an instrument, you know it's a gamble going in, so cut the seller some slack for what you end up holding in your hands..

Back to the acoustic guitars, a lot more complicated. I was just reading Dan Erlewine's book this morning (2nd edition) and he wisely advises taking a mirror with you when you go look at an acoustic guitar, look at everything, the braces, bridge plate, etc.

At this point I'll pass on a decent tip.

When I got the '87 Washburn 12 string with the top issues, I was trying to find this old plastic (Japanese) 70's Ford Courier inside rear view mirror that I'd used a few years ago to look inside a guitar, great mirror but of course I couldn't find it. So I went into my motorcycle box and dug out a super light plastic Acerbis folding mirror for dirt bikes, it's over at my luthiers right now with the Washburn, and he LOVES the mirror! I already gave it to him, I had two of them. It's a perfect size to go through the hole, won't hurt anything even if you forget it in there and pickup the guitar, and man oh man can you see the underside of the top! Strings have to be out of course, or loose anyway.

Another tip (from me); I put a business card on the fingerboard between the nut and the 1st fret, capo, and then unwind the strings until very loose to do whatever you need to do to the guitar, as in pulling bridge pins or unscrewing the tailpiece on a LP style guitar so that you can change a pickup or whatever, or shim a neck on a Strat, loosen the strings, loosen and remove the neckscrews, remove the neck, place your shim, screw the neck back on, tension the strings, in an out in five minutes!

The capo will keep the strings in neatly in place on the capstans of the tuners, no muss, no fuss, been doing this for years for instant acess to the top of a guitar, or in the case of an acoustic, getting that mirror and your hand inside of it so you can look around.

My Petzl "Tactikka" headlamp comes in handy too ;-)

Over and out, we're pulling knapweed in a field this morning, got three minutes to be there.
 
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bobouz

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Here's a very good example. It's extreme but it's also a fact. A good friend of mine not far from me sold a beautiful made in the USA Fender Tele to a guy on Ebay at a very fair price. The guy got it, used it at a couple gigs he had played and then returned the guitar. No damage to the guitar, it was returned in the same condition as shipped. But, the guy apparently didn't need it for anything other than that gig(s) and because my friend had a no questions asked return policy he was able to do so. He even admitted to my friend that was his intent all along. And Ebay/Reverb stood behind the buyer so my friend had to refund the fella's money. So, all I'm saying is there are two sides to every story.
My oh my, that's certainly one giant step beyond anything reasonable!
 

Sal

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Here's my tip for eBay/Reverb sellers:
When you are taking photos of your sale item be sure to take extra photos of any parts that might get swapped out. Save these photos until you are sure the buyer can't force a return. There are people who will replace your good parts with bad and return your now defective item … if they can get away with it. I had this happen on an expensive consumer camera I sold and had to take back.


I hope I haven't given anyone any sneaky ideas!
 
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Guildedagain

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Reverb satisfaction (and associated learning curve ) update. It's the 4th of July weekend so no mail tomorrow, the soonest the pickguard I bought on the 23rd on Reverb (1st purchase on the site) could be here is Tuesday... and by comparison I PayPal-ed Hans, in the Netherlands, on the 26th, and the pickguard material got here yesterday.

Way to go Hans, and thx, it looks nice ;-) When I get a little time I will cut out, finish and fit the pickguard, that will be very nice.

So (this is the actual reason for the post), I go to contact the seller on Reverb to ask what's going on, did they not have it, did they not send it, Do you have a tracking number, etc?

And I see that the seller is;


Seller Name & Email: reverb.com llc, admin@reverb.com
Transaction Amount: -$20.00 USD
Transaction Date: Jun 23, 2016


What the h is that? I bought this from a seller on Reverb, not from Reverb, why don't I have the seller's email address?

You mean to tell me that Reverb had the pull with PPal to hide seller's email adresses so you can't talk to your buyer direct, maybe they're afraid to get cut out of the loop for the next deal?

Every time you buy something from a seller on eBay, you'll see that guy's PPal ID in the details of the transaction, his email address, and you can communicate that way rather than through eBay's messaging system.

So to see that I can't even see my seller's email address after a transaction, I'd have to say that this is a new one on me after 15 years of online wheeling and dealing, a new low actually...
 
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Sal

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Guildedagain, I bought an old tweed amp on Reverb over a year ago and when I revisit that sale page I can still contact him. You'd also mentioned Reverb doesn't have a user rating system but they do. You can see in my screen grab below I can still contact Kim's Gear Locker and they have a 5 star rating and if I click on the ratings I can read what other folks have to say about their transactions.


Your seller is listed as Reverb and it might actually be them. They don't just run the site they also sell things too. I've bought cables from them.


If you're not seeing these options on Reverb I know that sometimes older web browsers don't show everything correctly. If that's the case maybe update your software or try a different browser. I bounce around between the Chrome, Firefox, and Safari browsers all the time. Also, update your Flash plug-in as old versions are notorious for screwing up web pages.


Hope this helps!

Reverb01_zpszwtz7uet.jpg
 

NEONMOONY

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Yeah, anything I've purchased on Reverb, I dealt with the seller directly and even face to face. I have made lower offers, and had them accepted, even when they didn't have "make an offer" button. I've had some fast shipping. I guess, just like ebay, craigslist or the guy down the street, the experience varies vendor to vendor.
 

Quantum Strummer

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Last thing I bought via Reverb was a "Les Paul" logo'd TRC for my '71 SG Deluxe. Just to irk Les a little while he lies, per Emily Dickinson, in his alabaster chamber. ;) Anyway I placed the order in the afternoon, and the TRC was in my mailbox less than two days later. I've had guitars & amps arrive nearly as fast, though this depends as much on FedEx & UPS vagaries as anything else. As other folks have noted Reverb maintains a record of every purchase you make: what, when, who from, "paper trail," etc. I have had one item arrive not quite as described, and also needing some fix-up work on my part, but it was minor enough that while I let the seller know about it (and docked him in my rating) I otherwise let it pass.

I don't mean this to sound fanboy. I've just had good experiences with Reverb. So far anyway.

-Dave-
 

richardp69

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I always see the sellers name, email address and more every time I buy something on Reverb.
Reverb satisfaction (and associated learning curve ) update. It's the 4th of July weekend so no mail tomorrow, the soonest the pickguard I bought on the 23rd on Reverb (1st purchase on the site) could be here is Tuesday... and by comparison I PayPal-ed Hans, in the Netherlands, on the 26th, and the pickguard material got here yesterday.

Way to go Hans, and thx, it looks nice ;-) When I get a little time I will cut out, finish and fit the pickguard, that will be very nice.

So (this is the actual reason for the post), I go to contact the seller on Reverb to ask what's going on, did they not have it, did they not send it, Do you have a tracking number, etc?

And I see that the seller is;


Seller Name & Email: reverb.com llc, admin@reverb.com
Transaction Amount: -$20.00 USD
Transaction Date: Jun 23, 2016


What the h is that? I bought this from a seller on Reverb, not from Reverb, why don't I have the seller's email address?

You mean to tell me that Reverb had the pull with PPal to hide seller's email adresses so you can't talk to your buyer direct, maybe they're afraid to get cut out of the loop for the next deal?

Every time you buy something from a seller on eBay, you'll see that guy's PPal ID in the details of the transaction, his email address, and you can communicate that way rather than through eBay's messaging system.

So to see that I can't even see my seller's email address after a transaction, I'd have to say that this is a new one on me after 15 years of online wheeling and dealing, a new low actually...
 

fronobulax

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While it does sound like a ugly situation, I'm not quite sure I follow how the problem was with Gbase.

As I review the ever popular and accurate information on the internet, the seller almost certainly has some liability for selling stolen goods, although the buyer might have to sue to get compensated. This probably is not about GBase but about Buffalo Brothers instead. But it comes down to whether the "seller of record" was GBase or Buffalo Brothers. I'd have to read the GBase user agreement to make a definitive statement.
 

fronobulax

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And I see that the seller is;


Seller Name & Email: reverb.com llc, admin@reverb.com
Transaction Amount: -$20.00 USD
Transaction Date: Jun 23, 2016

I cannot find an example now - too busy dodging fireworks - but I have seen cases where if you follow the fine print the seller is actually an entity controlled by Reverb and not an independent dealer advertising on Reverb. Amazon not has "Fulfilled by Amazon" displayed at some point before the order is finalized so the buyer actually knows who they are dealing with.
 
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