Math Question (Sort of)

[Uke]

I'm looking at replacement tuners. The guitar I'm considering installing them on measures from roller center to roller center, 35mm. Found some tuners that are 34.93mm from roller to roller. How much difference does 7/100 of a mm make when replacing guitar tuners?

 

[RBSinTo]

Uke,
Not. Very. Much.
RBSinTo

 

[AcornHouse]

Actually, that will add up to binding tuners. It may not seem like much, but unless the holes are rather sloppy to begin with, I foresee issues.

 

[5thumbs]

0.0027 inches. About the thickness of a sheet of copy paper.

 

[Wilmywood]

My first question is - what kind of guitar and tuner? Second - did you measure your holes yourself, and what did you use? .07mm or .002inch would be damn near imperceptible to the naked eye if measured with anything but a dial or digital caliper, certainly not with a rule. Regardless of what was used, if it is a string of 6 tuners, the difference at #6 would be .012inches, and unless the holes are exactly perfect, that would make zero difference in reality. If only three, even less difference.
Merely IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Uke]

Actually, that will add up to binding tuners. It may not seem like much, but unless the holes are rather sloppy to begin with, I foresee issues.

Yes that is my concern -- just enough difference to create binding. Thanks.

 

[Uke]

My first question is - did you measure your holes yourself, and what did you use? .07mm or .002inch would be damn near imperceptible to the naked eye.

Yes, I measured them, they are dead on 35mm, and yes it seems like such an amount would be virtually imperceptible. But I'm seriously taking AcornHouse's feedback to heart. Thanks for your weighing in.

 

[Wilmywood]

Yes, I measured them, they are dead on 35mm, and yes it seems like such an amount would be virtually imperceptible. But I'm seriously taking AcornHouse's feedback to heart. Thanks for your weighing in.

Measured with what? A caliper or a rule?

 

[Uke]

Measured with what? A caliper or a rule?

A rule.

 

[Uke]

My first question is - what kind of guitar and tuner? Second - did you measure your holes yourself, and what did you use? .07mm or .002inch would be damn near imperceptible to the naked eye if measured with anything but a dial or digital caliper, certainly not with a rule. Regardless of what was used, if it is a string of 6 tuners, the difference at #6 would be .012inches, and unless the holes are exactly perfect, that would make zero difference in reality. If only three, even less difference.
Merely IMO, of course. Your mileage may vary.

For some reason I could't see all of your response and questions -- just now see the rest. It is my 1978 Guild Mark IV classical, three on a side tuners. The originals are 3 on a plate; they work, but they are real tired. Thinking about replacing them and keeping the originals, of course.

 

[GAD]

A rule.

There is no way you can accurately discern 7/100” with a rule. Even 1/10” would be suspect on anything three dimensional IMO.

 

[Wilmywood]

There is no way you can accurately discern 7/100” with a rule. Even 1/10” would be suspect on anything three dimensional IMO.

Exactly. Much less the .002" that .07mm is. To be more illustrative, there are about eight .002''s in 1/64 of an inch. I defy anyone to see that with a rule of any kind without guessing. The lines on the rule used to do that measurement are wider than .002".

Any hole drilled in any material on anything but a mill will be at least .002" oversize.

 

[Uke]

So, it seems like the take away here is that the difference between 35mm and 34.93 mm is extremely negligible unless your putting a rocket together.. I wonder why many tuners advertise 35mm centers and the Schallers I'm looking at are spec'd 34.93? Kind of puzzling to me.

 

[Wilmywood]

So, it seems like the take away here is that the difference between 35mm and 34.93 mm is extremely negligible unless your putting a rocket together.. I wonder why many tuners advertise 35mm centers and the Schallers I'm looking at are spec'd 34.93? Kind of puzzling to me.

Because the difference is so negligible as to be completely irrelevant.

 

[Wilmywood]

I just looked at the StewMac website. All of the classical tuners there, including Schallers, are listed at 1 3/8" spacing, which literally translates to 34.925mm or 34.93 rounded up to two decimal places

Schaller Classical Guitar Machines - StewMac

A wide variety of tuners for your nylon string guitars.

www.stewmac.com

Bottom line is you are safe buying any of them, IMO.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I keep it simple:

- Buy.
- Try.
- Keep or return.

 

[Uke]

I keep it simple:

- Buy.
- Try.
- Keep or return.

That's my wife's philosophy as well. I HATE the hassle of returning things. When my wife says, "I need to return so and so," my response is always, "well, of course you do."

 

[Wilmywood]

That's my wife's philosophy as well. I HATE the hassle of returning things. When my wife says, "I need to return so and so," my response is always, "well, of course you do."

That is one reason I use Amazon so much - ease of returns. They also have all of the Schaller tuners at virtually the same price as StewMac, in fact, they ship FROM StewMac and are returnable within 30 days

Amazon.com : schaller classical guitar tuners

www.amazon.com

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

That's my wife's philosophy as well. I HATE the hassle of returning things. When my wife says, "I need to return so and so," my response is always, "well, of course you do."

If measuring tenths of millimeters and figuring out how many of them it takes to matter is more fun, then by all means, do it that way.

I don't often have to return things, but with tuners, trying them is the only fool-proof way I know of to find out whether they fit.

I've tried the measuring route. It doesn't always work. For one thing, bushing sizes vary a lot, and some companies don't know their own bushing specs.

Not saying don't measure! Just saying don't assume that a small fraction of a difference between one measurement and another means anything. Headstocks and tuning machines aren't Swiss watches. The proof is in installing them. Or trying to.

 

[GAD]

So, it seems like the take away here is that the difference between 35mm and 34.93 mm is extremely negligible unless your putting a rocket together.. I wonder why many tuners advertise 35mm centers and the Schallers I'm looking at are spec'd 34.93? Kind of puzzling to me.

My point was that the difference you’re seeing is far outside the margin of error for your measuring technique.

The difference can be very important (not sure about wood - I’d defer to AcornHouse) but you can’t measure that small eyeballing with a rule. you need calipers for that.

Plus, as others have mentioned, holes drilled in wood are not 1/100mm precise.

Get some calipers. Even modern cheap ones are fun and you can measure all kinds of things with them.