LOVE Guild Jumbos...but a bit confused!

[adorshki]

Sorry for so many questions, but I figure YOU guys are the experts, so here's another one. Can paint affect the sound?

The short answer's "Yes", but it would have to be pretty thick and with Guild it wasn't actually paint but heavily tinted lacquer, the way I understand it. And yeah some of those colors contained a high degree of particulate solids but they were still pretty thin, in Westerly at least, in regular production guitars.
D5 might actually be painted if you're quoting Hans literally.

When talking about these guitars later, Hans told me the D5 was basically a D4 with paint and Fishman power-jack.
The sound difference between these two guitars were night and day. Not even close!
Someone said that the black paint killed the tone on the D5. Others said the guitar quality was the reason, the D5 was no match for the D25.

Sounds like you realize a D4 is basically a structural clone of an archback D25 and so that surprises me and makes me suspect there was some other reason besides just finish for the guitar never sounding too good acoustically.
I wonder for example, if bracing and/or bridgeplate might have been tweaked a bit to help cut down on feedback.
Your story also reminds me of my experience with my Corona D40 which does have an exceptionally thick finish (clear), at least compared to the 2 Westerlys, and which also was surprisingly "muted" to my ears, but I think there are a couple of other potential factors in that guitar's build which taken altogether work to "hold it back", and I suspect that was happening with your D5 as well, or it could have been one of the very rare Westerly "duds".

I am seriously looking at the Black F-50 (would be great for the shows and to play at home),,,but will the color/paint affect the tone?

I would give more weight to where it was built, keeping what I said about my D40's finish in mind.
I think thickness is more important than color itself, even the heavy solids.
Obviously, play it if you can, or at least get a return clause based on your concern.

 

[SFIV1967]

If there are, they're going to be a surprise to me just like '01 Coronas were to Ralf.

Al: All I found and what you also already found out is that there are Guilds with TI (2005) serial numbers (D-55, F-512,...). I also saw sellers claiming about 2001 Corona Bluesbirds for instance but can't remember that Hans confirmed a serial number as 2001 Corona made here at LTG. In the absence of Hans second book I still would like to see such info about 2001 Corona made guitars.
Ralf

 

[chazmo]

Ralf, I missed this discussion... but yes, there are definitely production 2005 Guilds from Tacoma. I don't know if that was a full year or just partial, but I think the latter; i.e., I believe that's when production started there.

On a related note, not that anyone was asking, there are 2008 Guilds from New Hartford, but these were all prototypes of the D-55 model. The first production guitars (also D-55s) were built in Jan 2009, starting with NAMM, and as far as I know there was no production overlap since Tacoma builds were stopped at the end of December, 2008.

 

[adorshki]

Al: All I found and what you also already found out is that there are Guilds with TI (2005) serial numbers (D-55, F-512,...). I also saw sellers claiming about 2001 Corona Bluesbirds for instance but can't remember that Hans confirmed a serial number as 2001 Corona made here at LTG. In the absence of Hans second book I still would like to see such info about 2001 Corona made guitars.
Ralf

Where's the real Ralf and what have you done with him?!?!?
(From post #35 in this thread):
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?186979-Westerly&p=1700086#post1700086

2nevets had an very early Tobacco Sunburst Bluesbird S/N CM000009 and said it was from 2001.
duke54 had a Goldtop BB with S/N CM000010, also confirmed by Hans as 2001.

So there are known 2001 Corona made Guilds.

Ralf

To be fair, if you meant acoustic guitars, we KNOW Corona was building at least prototypes and practice kits from Westerly parts before Westerly actually completely shut down in December of '01.
But I'd have to search to find a Hans confirmation of an '01 regular production build acoustic from Corona, too.
I'm positive I'll find confirmation of prototypes, but it'll take me a while, thanks for bearing with me.

 

[SFIV1967]

Where's the real Ralf and what have you done with him?!?!?

Thank you for saving me Al! I had a bit of a stressful work week...And good you pointed me to my own post, so 2001 Corona made Bluesbirds are confirmed. I did not remember that discussion, will make a note now. Yes, regarding acoustics I also can't remember right now...
Ralf

 

[adorshki]

Thank you for saving me Al! I had a bit of a stressful work week...And good you pointed me to my own post, so 2001 Corona made Bluesbirds are confirmed. I did not remember that discussion, will make a note now. Yes, regarding acoustics I also can't remember right now...
Ralf

I tried using google to search a little last week, worked pretty good but ran out of time, so willl continue that "pet project" of mine, regarding when acoustic production started in Corona, and will post here if I find something concrete.
:friendly_wink:

 

[fretless]

if i got rid of everything... the Martin, the Gibby, the 3 other Guilds, i'd still have my 1975 Westerly Made F50 Bld (blonde)
this is a bit of an oversimplification, but a JF-65 is essentially an F50 (some may have abalone around the sound hole depending on the year) the JF30 maple is an F50 with out the ornamentation

personally...i think the arched back is such a beautiful cultural detail, definitely adds to the volume, and is such a Guild thing

 

[bobouz]

this is a bit of an oversimplification, but a JF-65 is essentially an F50 (some may have abalone around the sound hole depending on the year) the JF30 maple is an F50 with out the ornamentation

A good JF-30 can be a real bargain in today's used market, with all the best stuff present and accounted for. I am more than satisfied with the tone coming from my 1994 example, which continues to have a perfect neck angle & great playability.

So must agree, the maple jumbos with arched backs are something rather special !!!

 

[Buddy D]

Hey guys,

Don't know much about Guild Jumbos, but I was in a well-known "rare vintage guitar store" here in So Cal and stumbled upon a well-used F-50...spruce top, maple all around, arched back! A real CANNON! LOUD, but such a sweet tone, even with old strings. And beautiful! I was in LOVE! Then I noticed the thing has a prob where the neck meets the body...so much so that the high e string...high octave 12th fret...frets out. Doesn't make a note at all. And the other strings are "buzzy" right there. But at around 2600.00, yikes! Too rich for my blood.

But it DID awaken my curiosity, and now I am on the search for a used Guild Jumbo as my next guitar.
In doing some research, it seems I have more choices than I thought.
One thing that confused me was the backs. It seems the jumbos with a maple arched back do not need internal bracing on the backs. But the ones with rosewood DO seem to have bracing...and not arched. Is that correct?

Also...is the 'cannon-like volume" on the one I played because of the non-braced, arched back? I also love the look of the maple and spruce...and the inlays on the fretboard...and the more ornate headstock.

Then there are other models that seem to share dimensions and materials...just maybe not the same trim? This is where it gets confusing for me...F-30, F-40, F-50...then I saw a JF-65 (sweet!), JF-30...and a few others. F?, JF? Roswood non-arched and braced...maple laminated, arched, non-braced. Then some have pickups, some not.
A bit confusing!

And the prices are ALL OVER THE PLACE!
Reverb has a few...seems like a cool site (new to me!)...and ebay has a few here and there.
Whatever I get, It'll get some sort of pick-up/preamp to be able to play live. Either factory or aftermarket.

I'm just confused about the differences in model numbers...and then there's the different factories they were made in over the years. Tacoma, Rhode island, Westerly? I prefer USA made.

Are there any "Jumbo experts" on the forum here?

--Thanks,
--Steve

I just purchased a new F55 rosewood and its really nice.

 

[Westerly Wood]

I just purchased a new F55 rosewood and its really nice.

Lol. 8 years between last post and yours. Awesome!

 

[Guildedagain]

I'm positive I'll find confirmation of prototypes, but it'll take me a while, thanks for bearing with me.

Al's gone to look for his bearings, he'll be right back.

and will post here if I find something concrete.
:friendly_wink:

He's setting posts in concrete, boy's been busy, 8 years ;[]

 

[DeArmond Hammer]

 

[Guildedagain]

Necropolis residents would like to see pics of F55.

In the meantime.

 

[Cougar]

Haven't seen Retro around lately. Hoping all's well over there in SoCal. Other than the flooding.....

 

[Opsimath]

Al's gone to look for his bearings, he'll be right back.

He's setting posts in concrete, boy's been busy, 8 years ;[]

If Al is setting his posts in concrete I hope he's not ever planning to move that fence line. Also, make it high enough to keep the deer out!

 

[twocorgis]

Haven't seen Retro around lately. Hoping all's well over there in SoCal. Other than the flooding.....

Looks like he hasn't been seen here in almost a year. I used to enjoy his posts.

 

[richardp69]

I've got the F 50/F 55/F 50R from the Westerly, New Hartford, Oxnard, Tacoma and Corona facilities. It's likely my most favorite Guild model. Each one I have is pretty special. The F 50 Std. from New Hartford will likely give you the most affordable F 50. It's a straight forward guitar without the bling of the other F 50's but soundwise is every bit as good.

 

[Guildedagain]

Richard's place could be a lab/test facility for sonic comparisons, the way they did the Rick Beato D'addario string test posted yesterday, which was very cool. All you need is $50k in studio gear and you're set ;[]

 

[Br1ck]

That price would not be out of line for a guitar that was fixed by a good luthier. I'm tired of guitars with issues being priced like that and needing a thousand dollars of work. You see D 18s and D 28s priced high all the time needing neck resets. Very poor business.