Long Scale M-85 or Starfire?

[fronobulax]

According to the 1972 catalog here,

All Electric Basses are available with 34" scale and/or fretless fingerboard as same prices.

At the time the bass options were Starfire I and II, M-85-I and II and JS-I and II.

I have no recollection of ever seeing a fretless and/or long scale Starfire, perhaps because my interest tapered off circa 1970 when the Bisonic was replaced by the humbucker. I may have seen a M-85-II fretless but no recollection of a long scale. I have seen fretless JS's and long scale JS's.

Anybody recall seeing ones I may have missed or was this a factory option that not many people took advantage of?

 

[hieronymous]

All I can offer is my fretless M-85 II (seen here in the state that I bought it in).

The Vintage Guitar & Bass website has a page with vintage Guild advertisements - there are several fretless JS basses (including one that is both fretless & long-scale I believe) but those are the only ones I have seen. I personally have never seen a long-scale Starfire bass or M-85, nor a fretless Starfire.

 

[fronobulax]

All I can offer is my fretless M-85 II (seen here in the state that I bought it in).

The Vintage Guitar & Bass website has a page with vintage Guild advertisements - there are several fretless JS basses (including one that is both fretless & long-scale I believe) but those are the only ones I have seen. I personally have never seen a long-scale Starfire bass or M-85, nor a fretless Starfire.

I remembered you had a fretless M-85 but wasn't sure whether it was factory or not. I figured it was easier to hope you'd chime in than to say something wrong for you to correct

 

[Happy Face]

I thought we'd once spotted a long scale JS-II. But perhaps it was just an ad?

 

[mavuser]

I thought we'd once spotted a long scale JS-II. But perhaps it was just an ad?

yeah there's a few of those around. it is the Starfire and M-85 long scale option that is being questioned.

just throwing darts here...the JS has a flat top. for the long scale, they just moved the bridge back, and used the same neck as the short scale (with less frets, but spaced farther apart). possibly since the M-85 and Starfire have arched tops, moving the bridge back may been a problem somehow? that would be a deal breaker, if so.

 

[fronobulax]

I thought we'd once spotted a long scale JS-II. But perhaps it was just an ad?

I mentioned Starfire and M85 explicitly because we have seen most (all?) of the flavors of the JS. There was much discussion about how to identify a LS JS just from a photo. The simplest way is to count frets. This is my reference photo of a LS JS.

 

[fronobulax]

just throwing darts here...the JS has a flat top. for the long scale, they just moved the bridge back, and used the same neck as the short scale (with less frets, but spaced farther apart). possibly since the M-85 and Starfire have arched tops, moving the bridge back may been a problem somehow? that would be a deal breaker, if so.

That would explain their absence. I expect this is another case where the catalog/price list is not correct but a LS Starfire would be quite the unicorn. By 1971 the M85 was a solid body but the binding suggests something other than just a solid slab like the JS.

 

[lungimsam]

Congratulations to those of you who experienced Guild instruments since the 1960's.
They are special instruments and you got to enjoy them from the start!

That was cool that they offered those options, but I don't know how a longsale neck could enhance a Starfire. Maybe if a tall person felt jammed up on a shortie neck I could see it.

 

[DeArmond Hammer]

That was cool that they offered those options, but I don't know how a longsale neck could enhance a Starfire. Maybe if a tall person felt jammed up on a shortie neck I could see it.

The scale length can make a subtle difference in tone. Jack Casady said he helped create the first Alembic bass in part because his Starfire's scale was shorter than he wanted. (His signature bass, made by Epiphone, is a long-scale hollowbody.)

I'd love to try a long-scale Starfire bass, but I can imagine that its construction would require numerous tweaks to the short-scale design. The long-scale option must have been a marketing idea that got in the catalog before the luthiers heard about it.

 

[hieronymous]

I remembered you had a fretless M-85 but wasn't sure whether it was factory or not. I figured it was easier to hope you'd chime in than to say something wrong for you to correct

It looks factory to me - in fact, the fretless JS pictured in one of the ads helped, it was cool to see another early one.

And of course I forgot to post the pic...

Fretless M-85 II (eBay pictures from auction where I purchased it)

(And post-Alembicization, mainly so you can see the whole fretless neck)

 

[Happy Face]

Congratulations to those of you who experienced Guild instruments since the 1960's.
They are special instruments and you got to enjoy them from the start!

I wonder how many of us played Guilds in the 60s. Mgod perhaps earliest here?

My sixties Guild experience was limited to having and using a Guild ThunderBass for a while. (But with a P-bass or EB-3)

 

[mellowgerman]

Long scale JS-II, yes. Fretless m85, JS-II, and Starfire. But I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a long scale M85 or Starfire. I wouldn't want either, BUT certainly interesting!

 

[mavuser]

That was cool that they offered those options, but I don't know how a longsale neck could enhance a Starfire. Maybe if a tall person felt jammed up on a shortie neck I could see it.

the neck would actually be exactly the same, as I posted above. the frets would be spaced out farther apart (but less of them), and the bridge would be moved back- making the STRINGS longer, which definitely makes a difference in tone (as does the location of each fret). Anyone that wants a LS Starfire, just buy an Epiphone Caasady/Fender Corando/Hagstom semi hollow.
The M-85 is a club bass and I could not imagine a long scale version (but surely there is someone out there that wants one!)