just got back from Frankfurt Musik messe and....

[adorshki]

Guild - Schmild - Let's face it, it's over. Fender killed it the minute they bought it, schlepping it all over the country, slashing jobs and livelihoods in the pursuit of profit, and then dumped it onto another Californian Co. - a place with such a tradition of acoustic guitar making right?

Y'know, 12-string, Just to counterbalance some of that hyperbole, I'm not aware of any great guitar-making traditions having existed in Hoboken or Westerly when those locations were opened up. And in fact, Cordoba already had a plant in Oxnard, and Taylor and Larrivee are there too, as well as Fender's original purpose-built Guild manufacturing plant in Corona.
Then there's the Ren Ferguson Company that was in Venice in 1974 (thanks Clay):

IF you want to cruise north about 400 miles there's also Santa Cruz Guitars, and the almost legendary Frank Ford at Gryphon Stringed Instruments, and prior to the founding and even well into the history of the Republic of California there was a rich tradition and cottage industry building mariachi instruments.
All in all I'd say California makes a lot better sense than someplace like, oh, Scottsdale AZ?
Not to mention the fact that you'e within hours of your major ports of entry for international trade.
Kinda handy for a company that was already importing MIC instruments LONG before Fender sold 'em Guild.

...whose first task is to re-do the Chinese range.

So it only makes sense they'd revamp the MIC line first, THAT line is already up and running. In fact I've wondered a couple of times if it's actually one and the same factory that was making the Cordobas and the GAD's.

It's over, forget it, enjoy your old guitars, that's all there is now. My first and probably my last post.

So what was it Donald Sutherland said in "Kelly's Heroes"? Oh yeah, "Always with the negative vibes, Moriarty...". :biggrin-new:
So chill a little, dude, Cordoba has announced they are committed to building instruments here in the US.
It don't happen over night.
In fact maybe it makes more sense to get this roll-out out of the way and keep the wolves quiet for a little while, and bring out the really big guns when they've got product they can deliver, eh?
Then THAT roll-out won't be diluted with MIC stuff muddying the waters at the worst possible time.
Anyway, there's your first big rebuttal, and no snark. If you can roll with it stick around and have some fun with the rest of us!

 

[Westerly Wood]

If you can roll with it stick around and have some fun with the rest of us!

Yes!!! Just re-read my pickguard fiasco thread, that should easily lighten your mood

 

[adorshki]

How many of us are going to buy one no matter what they are called?

Surprisingly enough, that new B140e bass actually made me stop and think.
It could be perfect for my purposes, always had a pipe dream of owning a Guild acoustic bass but given my preference for new with warranty and inability to justify the price of an American-built for what would be purely a luxury toy that saw only a few hours a year of play, it probably woulda remained a pipe dream.
AND I'd have no real worries about taking it out of the house.....
hmmmm.................

 

[Westerly Wood]

I like the idea of the M140.

 

[adorshki]

They all do it.... haven't heard of the new "Ferrari Collection" by Ford?

Because if it was rear-ended it used exactly the same flames as a Ferrrari.
Redder, even.

 

[adorshki]

Do you know if they read LTG, or should somebody invite them friendly to look at what's been said here? It's not necessarily too late...

HI Dreamics, welcome aboard! Yes they do watch this forum and I'm absolutely positive everything said in this thread is being considered and digested. Your other post about the nature of marketing and brand image building shows some great insight, and maybe personal experience?

 

[Br1ck]

You know, buying a MIC guitar makes real sense for an instrument that you know won't see a lot of action, especially if the guitar is all solid wood and made to high QC standards. I'm at the point now where I have three quality MIA guitars and am thinking of rounding out the collection with cheaper imports for a parlor or 12 string. The bass wouldn't be a bad addition either.

The use of the Westerly name is unfortunate, but in the scheme of things, it's the guitars that matter, and if the Westerly name is what gets guitars sold, keeps Cordova happy and profitable and MIA Guild guitars a viable enterprise, what's so bad looking at the big picture?

I just bought my second imported instrument. The first was a Gold Tone Beard model dobro, and my made in Java Pono ukulele is due any day. Would I like a Kamaka or some other Hawaiian made brand? Sure, but I'm retired and won't make that kind of commitment until I know uke will be a lifetime endeavor. Cordova actually makes a decent uke too.

Cordova is making a huge comitment, so I'm cutting them some slack.

 

[davismanLV]

Hey Default, I just went through the whole Warranty thing when I purchased the Anniversary D55. The way it was explained to me per the agreement between Fender and Cordoba is that Cordoba has to honor all warranty claims for Guild Guitars with the exception of the Guild Arcos series. If you are the original owner and purchased your Guild with full warranty Cordoba has to honor it. If you purchase a New Hartford guitar today sold as new with warranty, Codoba has to honor it. When they acquired Guild from Fender they acquired all of the warranty assets as well with the exception of the Arcos series. One of the main parts of purchasing the Anniversary D55 was that it had a warranty since it had never been sold new. The shop I purchased it from verified through Cordoba that they would honor the warranty on it even though it is 13 years old and was made in Corona.

Technically correct, TB, but..... Default is probably referring to a recent member catastrophe and total blundering of a warranty claim.... shocking in its brazen disregard, but as he said... that's someone else's story to tell. You will probably hear about it soon enough.

 

[txbumper57]

Technically correct, TB, but..... Default is probably referring to a recent member catastrophe and total blundering of a warranty claim.... shocking in its brazen disregard, but as he said... that's someone else's story to tell. You will probably hear about it soon enough.

I hate to hear that. Whoever it was and Whatever happened I hope things work out.

 

[jcwu]

Technically correct, TB, but..... Default is probably referring to a recent member catastrophe and total blundering of a warranty claim.... shocking in its brazen disregard, but as he said... that's someone else's story to tell. You will probably hear about it soon enough.

Has the story been posted on LTG, or is it something that only a select few know about behind the scenes?

 

[davismanLV]

Not posted yet as far as I know. It's a long tale of woe and must be told correctly. Patience, grasshopper..... :encouragement:

 

[Walter Broes]

We've been in panic mode before when they closed Tacoma. Sit tight and see what happens. I've heard some good things and some crappy things that CMG is doing lately.

Agreed. And even if I started this thread, the "Westerly collection" thing is not a big deal to me. They could have thought of a slightly more elegant name for it, nothing more.

But in the short term at the very least, there's one thing that "worries me a little", and I put that between quotes because it's all very relative in my case. I'm not a big new Guild customer, I enjoy my four Hoboken archtops too much for that. And I think if I ever spend any real money on an acoustic again, I might look for a hoboken F30/F40/F47.
Now for the worrying thing : I AM getting somewhat of an impression that Cordoba studied the numbers of FMIC's recent adventure with Guild, and they're drawing some careful conclusions, at least for the time being. I'm getting the feeling that US production might be a fairly limited, upscale thing in the future - top of the line Jumbos, dreads and 12 strings, Orpheums, and maybe some things like the GSR's, higher end limited editions. It doesn't look like there are definite plans for a wide range of USA Guild acoustics, and it looks like electrics will be a "made in Korea or nothing" thing.

Which makes sense from an investment point of view - Cordoba probably sells ten (or more) Chinese made acoustics for every US model sold, and the profit percentage is probably a little higher, if not a lot. Those figures are similar for Guild dealers - much less of an investment to stock your shop with Korean and Chinese made guitars, and a good little margin on them too.

I honestly would have loved to see USA made X175's with the same attention to historical detail as the Korean ones, but I'm not expecting anything any time soon. I don't think they'd sell like hotcakes, something we discussed plenty in the past.

 

[adorshki]

Fender originally purchased Guild to have a Horse in the one race they were never been able to run in. The Acoustic Guitar Market.

That's exactly how I saw it. I bought my D25 to replace a made-in-Korea Fender F210 (stolen).
It was a nice little guitar, but I wanted to finally buy an American-built guitar that'd be the last one I ever needed to buy.
One that was worth re-fretting or repairing if needed.
New with warranty.
I was experiencing traumatic sticker shock on the "other 2". Taylor was still a dark horse.
A buddy who was a Guild 12-string loyalist told me to check out Guilds because Fender had just bought 'em. BINGO! My D25 had the best neck I'd ever played, that's actually the real reason I bought it!

I think if anything, Fender gave Guild a chance to shine and show folks that otherwise wouldn't consider them as an option how wonderful they really are. Even though I think the "Westerly Collection" name is somewhat a slap in the face to the instruments made at Westerly, I still have faith. If Cordoba and Ren can capture even a glimpse in Oxnard of the Magic that was being created in New Hartford, I think Guild will be alive for a long time to come. Just my opinion on the subject so take it for what it's worth.:friendly_wink:

Count me in that camp. A lot of us love that underdog aspect about Guild, too.
In fact I can even live with the "Westerly Collection" name because it does in fact have a subtly different semantic implication than "Westerly Series".
"Series" implies something that was or still is actually in production at the place name.
"Collection" carries a distinct implication of being historic artifacts as might be found in a museum or some place where the history is being preserved.
Coupled with the catalog message about homage to a near-legendary place, I can start to see this as an attempt to help the new prospective owner understand just why they're being called what they're being called.
Newbie Dreamics is a perfect example, he knew nothing and even had bad info until he dug in to do some research.
I'm OK with it now. I think they did the best they could.
Warranty:
A couple of years (maybe even 4 or 5), Fender changed the warranty policy to cover only instruments that were made under Fender ownership, and for new owners from that point forward, only instruments that were purchased from authorized dealers. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have forced Cordoba to acquire a larger warranty liability than they'd offered themselves.
I am happy to see they justified your D-55, since prior to that report we only had definite confirmation that they were warranting New-Hartford built product. That D55 being such a special case though, I'd said a couple of times that it wouldn't surprise me if they'd warrant that one based on the provenance, and hope they'd do that on a case by case basis for other Fender factories.
I got skin in that game with 2 Westerlies and a Corona.
You did REAL good by asking 'em beforehand, though.

 

[adorshki]

Technically correct, TB, but..... Default is probably referring to a recent member catastrophe and total blundering of a warranty claim.... shocking in its brazen disregard, but as he said... that's someone else's story to tell. You will probably hear about it soon enough.

If we're talking about that D55 whose finish was raped in the repair shop, remember that started off as a non-warranty repair due to owner accident, and he sent it off to a repair shop and ok'd the work before verifying their status as an authorized repair center. Right in the middle of "the changeover".
The shop itself apparently screwed up their repair job, and Cordoba really stepped up in offering him a new guitar even though the shop itself was in a gray area, hadn't been formally authorized as a Cordoba repair center yet.
IF it's that guitar.
:wink:
Edit: ok, just saw the post it's not the guitar I'm talking about, but I'm gonna leave this one up for balance in reporting.

 

[adorshki]

Now for the worrying thing : I AM getting somewhat of an impression that Cordoba studied the numbers of FMIC's recent adventure with Guild, and they're drawing some careful conclusions, at least for the time being. I'm getting the feeling that US production might be a fairly limited, upscale thing in the future - top of the line Jumbos, dreads and 12 strings, Orpheums, and maybe some things like the GSR's, higher end limited editions. It doesn't look like there are definite plans for a wide range of USA Guild acoustics,

That's actually the impression I got from the get-go, in fact I seem to recall there was formal communication from Cordoba that was the actual short-term plan, but that for sure there would be American-built product carrying the Guild logo.
Just like New Hartford, start small with some guranteed sellers and expand from there.
I mean, they acquired all that Guild tooling left in New Hartford, and moved it across the country, and started settiing it up again....I'd be pretty surprised if threw all that away at this stage.
Unless they can't get water.
(That's only half a joke, out here, right now)

 

[Westerly Wood]

That's actually the impression I got from the get-go, in fact I seem to recall there was formal communication from Cordoba that was the actual short-term plan, but that for sure there would be American-built product carrying the Guild logo.
Just like New Hartford, start small with some guranteed sellers and expand from there.
I mean, they acquired all that Guild tooling left in New Hartford, and moved it across the country, and started settiing it up again....I'd be pretty surprised if threw all that away at this stage.
Unless they can't get water.
(That's only half a joke, out here, right now)

yet Al, I wonder if the M20 and D20 is the right "guaranteed" sellers. I like the approach and believe they will be popular, but not everyone loves hog tops. Interesting decision to me. Gave me some pause. Why not start out with a spruce top...

 

[Default]

If we're talking about that D55 whose finish was raped in the repair shop, remember that started off as a non-warranty repair due to owner accident, and he sent it off to a repair shop and ok'd the work before verifying their status as an authorized repair center. Right in the middle of "the changeover".
The shop itself apparently screwed up their repair job, and Cordoba really stepped up in offering him a new guitar even though the shop itself was in a gray area, hadn't been formally authorized as a Cordoba repair center yet.
IF it's that guitar.
:wink:
Edit: ok, just saw the post it's not the guitar I'm talking about, but I'm gonna leave this one up for balance in reporting.

Um, no. This has to do with CMG not doing the right thing supporting NH product.

 

[adorshki]

yet Al, I wonder if the M20 and D20 is the right "guaranteed" sellers.

Oh yeah I share the uncertainty, especially as a diehard arched back fan.
Actually that philosophy was more specifically voiced early in New Hartford's run, as they reason they chose to begin production with D55's.
Maybe Cordoba thinks the best way to get some traction is to start at the low end?
On the other hand, now they're overlapping the MIC offering, THAT doesn't seem to make sense.
"now puzzled".

 

[adorshki]

Um, no. This has to do with CMG not doing the right thing supporting NH product.

The "other" guitar was NH product as well, but yeah I figured out it was a different issue and understand what you're saying.
Of course several of us are pretty curious now, I hope the story comes out and gets the fair play it deserves, at some point.

 

[charliea]

Um, no. This has to do with CMG not doing the right thing supporting NH product.

Food for thought: FMIC warranted NH Guild guitars, not Guild. They're still liable. If CMG gracefully accepts the liability, great, but Fender is ultimately responsible for NH warranty repairs.