Introduction, and advice please.

[Papa Joe]

Hi guys and gals, I’m new to this forum but it looks like a great place to get advice. I’m a novice player and probably always will be. I’ve owned a classical guitar for around thirty years but recently purchased a Guild DV4, my first steel strung acoustic.
Not sure it was the right choice for me, although it sounds great, bright, and loud. Two aspects seemed to be holding me back from getting the best from it, I was struggling with the steel strings even after 4 months, and the narrow neck was causing me to constantly foul adjacent strings on certain chords.

I decided to take it back to the retailer for a change of strings (lower gauge) and to lower the action (you get 2 free set ups as part of the deal). The retailer took one look and agreed it was badly set up and would be difficult to play. But after changing the strings he found he couldn’t make any adjustments with the truss rod, the installation of the truss rod was faulty and he had to send the guitar back to the manufacturer for repair.

Unfortunately a repair was not possible, I am being offered a replacement guitar of the same model, but from the new factory, in Mexico.

Do you think the new Mexican factory will be producing top notch guitars, bearing in mind they have only recently started making guitars? Mine was one of the last to be made at the Tacoma factory.

Would I be better off by not accepting the replacement, and choosing something with a wider neck?
Thanks for any replies.

 

[chazmo]

Joe, first welcome aboard!

I played one of the Ensenada DV-4s, and it sounded great. I had some concerns about build quality, and the hand-rubbed finish is very much like playing a raw guitar. However, it did sound nice. I didn't like the DV-6 (which is rosewood), but the DV-4 is the honey of the two.

"Top notch"... well... no. But "good" yes.

 

[killdeer43]

Welcome Papa Joe, from another Joe.

Seems to me that if you played a classical guitar for 30 years, your hands/fingers might well be adjusted to a wider neck and wider string spacing up and down. Are you a big hand/big finger individual or do you have, as someone described recently, "watchmaker's hands?"

Just sit back now and watch all the comments/advice come in. This is a great forum for that! Could be a flood coming your way.

Good things will come,
Joe

 

[Ian]

Hi Papa Joe,

A big welcome from Down under !! Sounds to me like you would be better off with something with a wider nut, maybe 1 3/4 or 1 7/8. Dont know what model Guild that might be or even if Guild make something with these nut widths ? I know I played a lovely Larrivee OM 03 a while back that had a 1 3/4 nut, sounded great !!

Good Luck in your search.

Cheers, Ian

 

[Graham]

Hey Papa, welcome to LTG.

If you have any 2nd thoughts then I would say go with your instinct. There are several classical players here that can offer advice with the fretboard, as many of those here also play steel string, but I would rather have you be happy with something than disappointed in Guild.

I have heard others refer to Guild as having a chunky neck as it is. I have not played a classical so I don't know what the adjustment is, but you may just want to back yourself up a few steps and take to the steel string a bit slower.

 

[Papa Joe]

Joe, first welcome aboard!

I played one of the Ensenada DV-4s, and it sounded great. I had some concerns about build quality, and the hand-rubbed finish is very much like playing a raw guitar. However, it did sound nice. I didn't like the DV-6 (which is rosewood), but the DV-4 is the honey of the two.

"Top notch"... well... no. But "good" yes.

Thanks for the welcome Chazmo. Must admit I loved the sound of the DV4, although the high setup made life difficult. I'm going to try out the replacement tomorrow, I expect the retailer is polishing it as we speak.

 

[Papa Joe]

Welcome Papa Joe, from another Joe.

Seems to me that if you played a classical guitar for 30 years, your hands/fingers might well be adjusted to a wider neck and wider string spacing up and down. Are you a big hand/big finger individual or do you have, as someone described recently, "watchmaker's hands?"

Just sit back now and watch all the comments/advice come in. This is a great forum for that! Could be a flood coming your way.

Good things will come,
Joe

Thanks for the welcome Joe.
I wouldn't say my hands are big, but perhaps a tiny bit chunky, and if I had a watch in pieces I would rather throw it in the bin than try to fix it.

 

[Papa Joe]

Hi Papa Joe,

A big welcome from Down under !! Sounds to me like you would be better off with something with a wider nut, maybe 1 3/4 or 1 7/8. Dont know what model Guild that might be or even if Guild make something with these nut widths ? I know I played a lovely Larrivee OM 03 a while back that had a 1 3/4 nut, sounded great !!

Good Luck in your search.

Cheers, Ian

Thanks Ian, just have to see how it goes tomorrow.

 

[Papa Joe]

Hey Papa, welcome to LTG.

If you have any 2nd thoughts then I would say go with your instinct. There are several classical players here that can offer advice with the fretboard, as many of those here also play steel string, but I would rather have you be happy with something than disappointed in Guild.

I have heard others refer to Guild as having a chunky neck as it is. I have not played a classical so I don't know what the adjustment is, but you may just want to back yourself up a few steps and take to the steel string a bit slower.

Thanks Graham you might be right about persevering, on the other hand if it was a mistake, this would be an opportunity to rectify and choose something easier to play. Decisions decisions......no doubt I'll be making one or two in the morning. :?

 

[killdeer43]

PaPa,

Another thing to consider is that the period of adjustment when going from classical to steel string and wider neck to narrower neck, is like having your significant other move in with you for the first time....or you moving in with them.
From personal experience, I can attest to a period of adjustment, both with guitars and significant others!
*I'm not going to set myself up on this forum by saying which is tougher....or which is more fun! To each his own! :wink:

Joe

 

[Papa Joe]

Thats worrying Joe, been with my missus for 27 years and we still haven't managed the transition! :?

 

[killdeer43]

Thats worrying Joe, been with my missus for 27 years and we still haven't managed the transition! :?

See, there's another connection to playing your guitar....you have to keep practicing! :lol:

Joe

 

[Graham]

Thats worrying Joe, been with my missus for 27 years and we still haven't managed the transition! :?

Apparently Papa, the first 30 years are the most difficult. :shock:

 

[Cid]

[quote="Graham
Apparently Papa, the first 30 years are the most difficult. :shock:[/quote]

That's what you keep telling me, dear. :lol:

 

[cjd-player]

Welcome Joe.

I agree with the above to go with what is comfortable for you.

There are two sources of wide-neck steel string guitars that I am aware of.
1. Most Seagull guitars have a 1.8" nut,

and 2. you can special order a Taylor guitar with a wide neck and 1-7/8 (1.875) nut.

Still not the classical 2", but closer than most other steel strings.

 

[evenkeel]

From another newbie, Welcome to the gang.

Making the transition from a classical to a steel string may well be made easier with a slightly wider neck. The Guild GAD 30 is 1 3/4" inch at the nut. The Orchestra body style may also feel comfortable for a classical player. Might be worth checking out.

 

[dane]

Ok…here’s a different angle to consider. Forget the 6 string completely and buy a12 string dreadnaught as the neck is much wider, install a set of 6 string light gauge and adjust the truss rod to compensate for the lighter pull. The sound and playability is incredible, and later on IF you wish you can re-adjust the rod again and install a 12 string set and enjoy! You wouldn’t be the first one to do this. Just a thought.

 

[killdeer43]

Ok…here’s a different angle to consider. Forget the 6 string completely and buy a12 string dreadnaught as the neck is much wider, install a set of 6 string light gauge and adjust the truss rod to compensate for the lighter pull. The sound and playability is incredible, and later on IF you wish you can re-adjust the rod again and install a 12 string set and enjoy! You wouldn’t be the first one to do this. Just a thought.

I've done that before out of necessity. I was living in a cabin in New Mexico at least 20 miles from the nearest music store. I broke a couple of strings on my 12 and only had a set for my 6 string, so I figured, what the hey, and it worked just fine. Or fine enough, all things considered....I was reading Carlos Castenada at the time! :?

There's my testimonial, and I'm stickin' to it.
Joe

 

[Ridgemont]

Wow! Gone for a few days and look what I have missed. First of all, welcome to the forum Papa Joe. You can see how much advice you can get when you post something here. There is no such thing as a bad question, but you sometimes will get a pretty dumb answer like the one I am about to give. HA!

I played a classical guitar for the first 15 years of my hobby and got really used to a thick neck. Unfortunately, unless you have 18K and can afford the Josh White Guild guitar (classical guitar neck) over at Elderly.com, you won't get something like that in a steel string (unless you go custom). The largest necks I have seen are 1 3/4 and one 1 7/8 inch neck (a Martin $$$$). While I just sold my old Seagull guitar, they come standard with a 1.8 inch neck and are quite affordable. You can get a solid wood (spruce/mahogany) Seagull for around $700. Of course it is not a Guild which around here is a big negative. The old contemporary series from Guild had some OM style guitars (model CO-1, CO-2) that have 1 3/4 inch necks. You can find them on the used market for descent prices, but still >$1000. I hear they are nice and the owners around here love them. If you are willing to go foreign (Chinese made), then Guild does have the GAD series, which are well built guitars. They are somewhat hit and miss in terms of voice, so I would recommend playing before you buy. They are affordable, but prices are increasing. Other Chinese guitars with wide necks would include epiphone masterbilt EF500 and some recording king's (both are very nice for the price). Of course, as someone else mentioned, Larrivees are super (the L-03R has the voice of a dread, with the comfort of an OM).

It is unfortunate that the 1 11/16 inch neck is uncomfortable and difficult to play because Guild dreads sound so great and they are affordable. I still have trouble with pull offs on that size neck. I have practiced and practiced, and have had to change fingering in some situations, but it is tough. You will slowly adapt though as I find it more and more difficult to play my classical guitar.

I have not heard anything bad about the DV4s from Mexico. If you decide to take it home, be sure to compare it to other Guild models and reputable brands (both old and new) in the store. If you can't hear a difference and think it sounds just as good as an older vintage model or a more expensive model, then that is the guitar for you. One thing I have noticed, as my ears develop towards steel string guitars, I have begun to notice tone differences between different models especially old versus new. Once I heard an older Guild (my D25), I could tell that some new Guilds I have played really needed to open up to sound great. Just remember, if you get a Guild and realize you don't like the model or size, it is not a loss. The American made models can be treated like investments because they do not lose much in value on the used market.

Ridgemont

 

[adorshki]

HI Joe welcome! People are gonna get tired of hearing how I play my D25 with classical technique, but my real point is that with the right strings and setup I thinnk you're gonna catch on real quick and come to like it better! One thing in particular I've realized is that there's a great woody tone spot if you arpeggio right on the fretboard between the heel and the soundhole, and I think you get better "pluck" on the strings if the action's right at or even a tiny bit higher than factory spec. My fingers are virtually touching the fretboard when I play that way. Try extra light gauge strings right off the bat. Hope you find the right guitar!